# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/801 "2016-01-23T22:52:16Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I think that’s good for the direction of the show. A mix-up now and then is quite good. I wonder if Capaldi will leave with him. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/802 "2016-01-23T22:57:12Z")
Capaldi had said elsewhere he doesn’t know yet if he’ll stay beyond season 10. Two Doctors per showrunner seems to be the theme - RTD had Eccleston and Tennant; Moffat has Smith and Capaldi. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/803 "2016-01-23T23:43:17Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I think that’s good for the direction of the show. I agree. Moffat is a peerless idea-guy–I think his Angels and the Silence are particularly brilliant–but he is not strong on plotting, and the show suffered for it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/804 "2016-01-24T00:41:57Z")
I’ve really enjoyed Capaldi as the Doctor and I wouldn’t mind seeing him stay beyond Moffet’s departure… but it’s really up to Capaldi, not us, and if he chooses to leave, well, I wish him well and hope for an equally wonderful successor. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/805 "2016-01-24T00:55:55Z")
I’m not clamoring for Moffat to stay. But he’s being replaced by **Chibnall**. Pretty much the only good thing he’s ever written was most of the first series of Broadchurch, and he couldn’t even keep that going for an extra season. Exhibit B: [![](https://i.imgur.com/Y6lH2eP.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/Y6lH2eP.jpg) Now, maybe he won’t take the Moffat/RTD route and write everything, instead delegating to better writers, but I’m not optimistic. He’s always been, at best, mediocre. Now, Moffat was known for being excellent, so obviously writing =/= showrunning given how exhausted we got with him, but again, I’m not optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/806 "2016-01-24T01:08:13Z")
I strongly suspect Moffatt was pushed after [recent awful viewing figures](http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmidgley/2015/10/17/doctor-who-ratings-are-awful-but-not-as-bad-as-these-4-reasons-why-the-bbc-wont-cancel-it/#3648d840411e): fans can debate the merits of new Doctors, the treatment of companions and the virtues of individual episodes, but beyond that loyal core, the show has been haemorrhaging casual viewers. People simply haven’t been watching Doctor Who in the numbers they did when Tennant was the Doctor. And I suspect that’s largely due to Moffatt: the show simply hasn’t been that much _fun_ over the past few years: and, with his reliance on convoluted and confusing arcs which are never properly resolved, it hasn’t been particularly accessible to anyone flicking across the channels. Chibnall has probably been given firm instructions to clear away Moffatt’s worst excesses and bring back the punters, and that will probably mean a considerable lightening of the tone. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/807 "2016-01-24T01:13:41Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I strongly suspect Moffatt was pushed Yeah, he was pushed so hard that he’s got another year’s worth of episodes to make under his watch. “strongly suspect” ffs ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/808 "2016-01-24T01:18:05Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I strongly suspect Moffatt was pushed after [recent awful viewing figures](http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmidgley/2015/10/17/doctor-who-ratings-are-awful-but-not-as-bad-as-these-4-reasons-why-the-bbc-wont-cancel-it/#3648d840411e): fans can debate the merits of new Doctors, the treatment of companions and the virtues of individual episodes, but beyond that loyal core, the show has been haemorrhaging casual viewers. People simply haven’t been watching Doctor Who in the numbers they did when Tennant was the Doctor. And I suspect that’s largely due to Moffatt: the show simply hasn’t been that much _fun_ over the past few years: and, with his reliance on convoluted and confusing arcs which are never properly resolved, it hasn’t been particularly accessible to anyone flicking across the channels. Chibnall has probably been given firm instructions to clear away Moffatt’s worst excesses and bring back the punters, and that will probably mean a considerable lightening of the tone. I’ve seen this discussed on other forums. The overnights are people who watch the show when it airs. The ratings are as good as they’ve always been if you factor in people who watch the show on iPlayer. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/809 "2016-01-24T03:54:26Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Yeah, he was pushed so hard that he’s got another year’s worth of episodes to make under his watch. > > “strongly suspect” ffs Yes. The fact that the BBC trusts that viewers will come back to a Moffatt-produced season of _Who_ after a _year’s hiatus_ suggests that they still trust him to put butts in the seats. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/810 "2016-01-24T05:41:28Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Pretty much the only good thing he’s ever written was most of the first series of Broadchurch, and he couldn’t even keep that going for an extra season. He couldn’t even keep that going for the whole first season. There were a lot of strong, strong moments, but there was also a lot of crap. And the end of the first season was somewhere between “not good” and “incredibly stupid.” It was nearly always beautifully shot - but I don’t think Doctor Who fans watch for interesting camera technique. Most of Torchwood was also not good. > [@Penfeather](#): > > I strongly suspect Moffatt was pushed after [recent awful viewing figures](http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmidgley/2015/10/17/doctor-who-ratings-are-awful-but-not-as-bad-as-these-4-reasons-why-the-bbc-wont-cancel-it/#3648d840411e) I don’t know how British ratings work, especially for the BBC which (unlike American networks) _doesn’t_ need to tout high ratings in order to draw advertiser dollars. I’m not sure I that author’s analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/811 "2016-01-24T06:52:54Z")
Stealing from another forum: > [@](#): > > Someone thought long and hard. “I wish…that Moffat was no longer in charge of Doctor Who.” > > The monkey paw stiffened, then closed a finger. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/812 "2016-01-24T22:34:44Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > He couldn’t even keep that going for the whole first season. There were a lot of strong, strong moments, but there was also a lot of crap. And the end of the first season was somewhere between “not good” and “incredibly stupid.”… There was also a troubling repetition, in the plotting and character histories, of a theme that could be described as ‘adult-child romantic relationships are truly heartfelt and maybe not so bad’ (as with the older character who had married his child amour when she became old enough for legal marriage). I can’t see that as being a good underlying theme for _Doctor Who_ (if it should show up, there). ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/813 "2016-01-25T00:08:01Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Most of Torchwood was also not good. Oh, man, he wrote on Torchwood? That show was ridiculously bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/814 "2016-01-25T00:08:57Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Oh, man, he wrote on Torchwood? That show was ridiculously bad. He was basically in charge of Torchwood. He had approximately as much responsibility for everything as RTD. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/815 "2016-02-25T23:39:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > There was also a troubling repetition, in the plotting and character histories, of a theme that could be described as ‘adult-child romantic relationships are truly heartfelt and maybe not so bad’ (as with the older character who had married his child amour when she became old enough for legal marriage). > > I can’t see that as being a good underlying theme for _Doctor Who_ (if it should show up, there). You mean like having the wise really old Doctor take on an incredibly naive but hot young female companion, separate her from her boyfriend, and eventually (kind of sort of) run off with her? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/816 "2016-02-26T12:56:48Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > You mean like having the wise really old Doctor take on an incredibly naive but hot young female companion, separate her from her boyfriend, and eventually (kind of sort of) run off with her? Except that, when Clara first met the Doctor, he appeared to be the same age as she. They traveled together a year before he changed, and for a while after that before she ever met Danny. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/817 "2016-02-26T17:50:55Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Except that, when Clara first met the Doctor, he appeared to be the same age as she. They traveled together a year before he changed, and for a while after that before she ever met Danny. Actually, I was referring to Rose. The Clara thing isn’t quite as creepy, but in the same vein. Regardless of how the Doctor looked, he was many, many times older than Clara. All of which is to say that ‘adult-child romantic relationships are truly heartfelt and maybe not so bad’ wouldn’t exactly be a big departure for recent Who. Whether or not that’s a bad thing is an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/818 "2016-02-26T19:08:02Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Actually, I was referring to Rose. The Clara thing isn’t quite as creepy, but in the same vein. Regardless of how the Doctor looked, he was many, many times older than Clara. All of which is to say that ‘adult-child romantic relationships are truly heartfelt and maybe not so bad’ wouldn’t exactly be a big departure for recent Who. Whether or not that’s a bad thing is an exercise for the reader. And don’t forgot that the Doctor and Rose actually ended up together in the end (sorta) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/819 "2016-02-26T19:21:46Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > This might help > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wgLFj6bbI&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wgLFj6bbI&feature=youtu.be) I missed this the first time around. What a great video. I am so glad they ended up doing what they said the characters did 7 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/820 "2016-02-26T19:23:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > And don’t forgot that the Doctor and Rose actually ended up together in the end (sorta) Yeah, but the actors embodying the Doctor and Rose at that point were _not_ a case of ‘adult and young-teenager’ (as was the case with Broadchurch). So I can’t see that as being any support for the argument that seems to be being made in this thread (something like ‘Doctor Who has always promoted youth + adult sexual relationships, so the new showrunner will make no difference.’ I’m not seeing evidence that this claim holds any water; the mere fact that companions are often younger than the Doctor, in and of itself, doesn’t reasonably provide an equivalence to the situations depicted in _Broadchurch_.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=40)