# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/161 "2015-09-27T20:29:41Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > Damn straight. We need more of THAT Doctor. > > Even mercy has its limits. Shall we play dodgems? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/162 "2015-09-27T20:33:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Nah, he explicitly got a new set on the Smith -\> Capaldi change over, but it wasn’t a hard limit anyway. Oh yeah, in Time of the Doctor. I completely forgot. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/163 "2015-09-28T01:02:16Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Missed the edit window. The eyes on the hand mines reminded me of the eyes on hands in “The Fires of Pompeii” episode. Or Clara’s eye blouse in “Into the Dalek,” S08e02. Which also had that “Am I a good man?” thing. Happened to watch it Friday and it made this week’s seem even more a part a continuum, something you don’t get with MOTW. > [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > As usual, I’m in the minority in what I like in a TV show. I don’t like Missy. > Suggesting the Doctor destroy the Clara/Dalek? Really? And this is a character we want around? The other Masters would’ve done the same thing, using the same words. The Master is a psychopath who follows a pattern of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/164 "2015-09-28T02:32:42Z")
Well, I never said Missy was a LIKEABLE character. That being said, she was hilarious. That being said, it remains unclear why she tried to manipulate the Doctor into killing Clara. But, then, that’s the kind of thing that would tickle the hell out of Missy… for no other reason that it would tickle the hell out of Missy. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/165 "2015-09-28T02:42:10Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > LIKES: > Peter Capaldi’s new take on the Doctor. He’s frankly much more fun than the unpleasant character he played last season. > Missy. It would have taken a lot to top John Simm’s manic turn as the Master, and this lady got the chops. Gomez’ Missy very much reminded me of Simm’s. Much more the clever sociopath than the traditionally villainous Delgado/Ainley incarnations. > [@](#): > > Again, we infiltrate the city of the Daleks by climbing into a Dalek shell! Loved that. > Again, we put Clara into a Dalek shell! Nice callback. > Part of me thinks we may be using the Daleks too much, part of me thinks it’s nice to see Dalek psychology and physiology fleshed out. I usually dread Dalek episodes. This was the first time I’ve ever seen anything compelling in them as characters. That their emotions fire their weapons, and that “I love you” comes out as “EX-TER-MIN-ATE!” made me think about them as sentient beings, rather than macguffins. > [@](#): > > DISLIKES: > Clara seemed to be holding the stupid ball the whole episode. She’s been tough and smart in the past, but at the climax, she’s whimpering and panicking and jabbering. THIS is the girl who splintered throughout time and saved the Doctor’s bacon? I figured at first she’d say “Run, you clever boy, and remember”. But, _pace_ the discussion above as to whether or not Clara remembers Oswin the Soufflé Girl and Victorian Clara, she may not know that phrase. In any case, to fanwank it, she’s probably never been confronted by an irate Doctor. She knows Missy’s a threat. But the Doctor _holding a gun_? That’s unprecedented. And scary. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/166 "2015-09-28T03:00:52Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The other Masters would’ve done the same thing, using the same words. The Master is a psychopath who follows a pattern of behavior. Agreed. I’m not a fan of them either. I just don’t enjoy that type of villain. It’s turned me off of more than one series…I hope it doesn’t happen here. > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I figured at first she’d say “Run, you clever boy, and remember”. But, _pace_ the discussion above as to whether or not Clara remembers Oswin the Soufflé Girl and Victorian Clara, she may not know that phrase. In any case, to fanwank it, she’s probably never been confronted by an irate Doctor. She knows Missy’s a threat. But the Doctor _holding a gun_? That’s unprecedented. And scary. Wasn’t that her password in The Bells of Saint John? And how the Doctor realized that it was the same impossible girl? ETA: It was the reminder for the WiFi password. [Youtube Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ATZSErvxM&t=1m46s). ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/167 "2015-09-28T03:06:00Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Gomez’ Missy very much reminded me of Simm’s. Much more the clever sociopath than the traditionally villainous Delgado/Ainley incarnations. The way it seems to me is that both Delgado’s Master and Gomez’s Missy had/have charisma in spades. Delgado was sinister/charming and Gomez is sinister/nutty-as-a-fruitcake, but they’re both very _appealing_. Ainley and Simm, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/168 "2015-09-28T03:35:12Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Wasn’t that her password in The Bells of Saint John? And how the Doctor realized that it was the same impossible girl? > ETA: It was the reminder for the WiFi password. [Youtube Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ATZSErvxM&t=1m46s). Yes, but that was just a mnemonic for her WiFi password (as you point out). No reason for her to associate it with the Doctor. (And even if she did, she’d probably link it with the younger Eleven; Twelve is many things, but not a “clever boy”.) > [@MacSpon](#): > > The way it seems to me is that both Delgado’s Master and Gomez’s Missy had/have charisma in spades. Delgado was sinister/charming and Gomez is sinister/nutty-as-a-fruitcake, but they’re both very _appealing_. > > Ainley and Simm, not so much. Really? YMMV, of course, but Simm is my favorite Master. Admittedly, I’m not as familiar with the older Masters - although I do think I saw all of the Ainley episodes - but Simm is the first one I can remember that conveyed _why_ he was a psychotic nutjob. Delgado and Ainley just seemed to be all about the evulz; Simm showed you the Master’s traumatic childhood, and also his passionate love/hate relationship with the Doctor. And he rocked. As much as I am enjoying Missy, Gomez is just treading the path that Simm laid out. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/169 "2015-09-28T06:36:20Z")
I guess we’ll ignore how going back and saving Davros should have changed the future. Now instead of being abandonded, Davros should have remembered being saved. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/170 "2015-09-28T11:34:19Z")
Delgado is a favorite of many Whovians, Ainley was charming for sure. Eric Roberts’ Master was just so wrong on so many levels, but because he was so different from Ainley, he laid the ground work for Simm to go his own way. I’m just sorry we didn’t get to see more of Jacobi’s Master. Simm gave us the first time we saw, you should pardon the expression, the Master’s human side, and it laid the ground work for a deeper understanding of the Doctor/Master relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/171 "2015-09-28T13:40:25Z")
Are there rondels in Twelve’s TARDIS control room? I’m wondering if Davros put them onto the Daleks’ armor because he remembered them from that. I really enjoyed this episode, although Missy was acting so “fishy” when she urged the Doctor to kill Clara’s Dalek that he should have been even more suspicious than he was. And when the Doctor told her to run after he found Clara, Missy should’ve been more afraid. When Missy said the Doctor gave her the Dark Star “when her daughter…” My husband and I wondered, was the Master the Doctor’s father-in-law? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/172 "2015-09-28T14:14:59Z")
I dunno… I grew up with Delgado as the Master, and Delgado was… WAS the Master. The man looked like he was born to play Satan on stage, and he was a fine actor. Ainley and the others… not so much. Ainley, seemingly, was simply hired due to his resemblance to Delgado. John Simm jazzed things up, partly due to his gleefully unhinged performance… and partly due to the fact that he SUCCEEDED, for once. He conquered Earth, wiped out a tenth of humanity, prepared a battle armada to conquer the universe, vaporized the President of the United States, and kept Captain Jack on a string for whenever he felt like torturing someone to death. Oh, and he kept the Doctor in a birdcage. Now, Delgado was baaaad, but Simm actually DID it. And had a grand time doing it. That was gonna be a hard act to follow. Missy manages. She hasn’t managed to blow up any planets yet, but she’s a fine, charismatic, FUN villain. The show must go on! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/173 "2015-09-28T19:00:30Z")
The Master does not wear a hoodie. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/174 "2015-09-28T20:30:46Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I guess we’ll ignore how going back and saving Davros should have changed the future. Now instead of being abandonded, Davros should have remembered being saved. Davros always remembered being saved. That’s why the Daleks always knew the word “mercy”. But it’s not like one grudging act of kindness by a timelord was enough to overcome a lifetime of war-related anger. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/175 "2015-09-28T22:28:37Z")
I haven’t caught up with the thread since the last episode aired, but I was much more pleased this time around. The story was tight, with no filler action like last week. And I am finally, fully on board with Missy. Before she she seemed like another of Moffat’s fast-talking, pseudo-dominatrix fantasy objects. Now she’s made the part entirely her own; she’s credible, alluring and deliciously evil. She’s reinvigorating the whole character of the Master the way Capaldi is giving a shot in the arm to the Doctor. And the idea that a Dalek literally cannot say the words “I love you” is funny and tragic at the same time. A very strong episode all in all. But my god, ditch the sonic Ray-Bans. Terrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/176 "2015-09-28T23:06:34Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > But my god, ditch the sonic Ray-Bans. Terrible idea. They are only there to be ditched in some way that amuses middle-aged, long-term, Scottish Who fans and seeing as that is my demographic, I’m looking forward to River shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/177 "2015-09-28T23:28:35Z")
The whole narrative point of the Sonic Screwdriver is twofold: 1. So the Doctor can pull solutions out of his ass when the plot demands it. 2. It gives him something to brandish. Y’can’t brandish sunglasses. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/178 "2015-09-28T23:29:05Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > They are only there to be ditched in some way that amuses middle-aged, long-term, Scottish Who fans and seeing as that is my demographic, I’m looking forward to River shooting them. Which means we have to wait 'til Christmas, which means we have to put up with a season of the Doctor opening locked doors by waving his face at them. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/179 "2015-09-29T00:34:12Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > I dunno… I grew up with Delgado as the Master, and Delgado was… WAS the Master. The man looked like he was born to play Satan on stage, and he was a fine actor. > > Ainley and the others… not so much. Ainley, seemingly, was simply hired due to his resemblance to Delgado. > > John Simm jazzed things up, partly due to his gleefully unhinged performance… and partly due to the fact that he SUCCEEDED, for once. He conquered Earth, wiped out a tenth of humanity, prepared a battle armada to conquer the universe, vaporized the President of the United States, and kept Captain Jack on a string for whenever he felt like torturing someone to death. Oh, and he kept the Doctor in a birdcage. > > Now, Delgado was baaaad, but Simm actually DID it. And had a grand time doing it. That was gonna be a hard act to follow. > > Missy manages. She hasn’t managed to blow up any planets yet, but she’s a fine, charismatic, FUN villain. The show must go on! I’m not entirely sure Simm/Gomez can be (fairly) compared to Delgado/Ainley, for pretty much the same reason Clayton Kershaw can’t be compared to Sandy Koufax: the game has changed so much in the intervening time. BBC America is showing some Tom Baker episodes on Sunday mornings (calling them _Breakfast With Baker_), and last night I watched “City of Death”. It was good, but the pacing, writing and acting were very different than the modern series. One scene featured the Doctor and Romana in a café in Paris, discussing an artist who’d sketched Romana as a woman with a cracked clock face. The Doctor said mentioned something about a “crack in time.” Double take! Cue sudden zoom as he repeats the portentous words, “A crack…in time!” Music sting! From my modern perspective, that came across as hammy and overacted. As did the performance of Julian Glover as the baddie. Perhaps this is attributable to both Baker and Glover starting their dramatic careers on the stage. Delgado did, as well. But Simm and Gomez and Coleman come from a more modern, naturalistic school of acting. And Moffatt’s background is writing and producing television - he, too, understands the medium in a way that perhaps the earlier producers and writers didn’t. So the question “who was the better Master, Delgado or Simm?” is not as straightforward as, for example, “who was the better Doctor, Smith or Tennant?” Or so it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/180 "2015-09-29T01:33:05Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > The whole narrative point of the Sonic Screwdriver is twofold: > > 1. So the Doctor can pull solutions out of his ass when the plot demands it. > 2. It gives him something to brandish. > > Y’can’t brandish sunglasses. It’s a scientific instrument, not a water pistol! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=10)