# Doctor Who Series Five: UK pace thread \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851 "2010-04-03T21:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/241 "2010-04-19T22:09:45Z")
The new Doctor will guest on Sarah Jane Adventures this Fall. It should be a fun episode. The Doctor and two previous companions together again. 😉 > [@](#): > > Matt Smith and Katy Manning are coming to Bannerman Road this Autumn in a two-part episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures, reprising their Doctor Who roles. Matt will, of course, be appearing as the Doctor, which will make the long wait between the end of the current series and the Christmas Special a little more tolerable. \Katy Manning originally appeared as Jo Grant in Doctor Who from 1971-1973 with then current Doctor Jon Pertwee. [http://popculturezoo.com/archives/5831](http://popculturezoo.com/archives/5831) BBC started filming the fourth season of Sarah Jane Adventures in early April. They’ve committed to season 5. 😉 > **[Casinos Not On Gamestop is rated "Average" with 3.6 / 5 on Trustpilot](https://www.trustpilot.com/review/casinos-not-on-gamestop.com)** > > Do you agree with Casinos Not On Gamestop's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 6 customers have already said. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/242 "2010-04-19T23:40:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The new Doctor will guest on Sarah Jane Adventures this Fall. That’s interesting, because SJA is still under Russell T Davies’s watch. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/243 "2010-04-20T03:50:12Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Then he’s faced with a dilemma that would never be a dilemma at all for the Doctor… I didn’t much care for this episode and agree with all the other criticisms, but not this. The Doctor was choosing between saving Earth and unleashing the Daleks on the universe once again. The Daleks that have been responsible for untold suffering and the destruction of Gallifrey. It’s arguable that the Doctor did not make the right choice in saving Earth and it wouldn’t surprise me if he comes to regret or second-guess the decision later. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/244 "2010-04-20T04:24:29Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > The Doctor was choosing between saving Earth and unleashing the Daleks on the universe once again. The Daleks that have been responsible for untold suffering and the destruction of Gallifrey. It’s arguable that the Doctor did not make the right choice in saving Earth and it wouldn’t surprise me if he comes to regret or second-guess the decision later. I got the idea that he already _knew_ he was making a bad decision but could not bring himself to allow the Earth to be destroyed. I’m sure he already regrets it to some degree, but there is no way the Doctor would ever allow Earth to be destroyed if he could prevent it. Just ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/245 "2010-04-20T05:34:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Pics of the new doctor and companion. > The last pic is NSFW and probably not from Doctor Who. Nevertheless it’s worth a look. 😉 > [Doctor Who Matt Smith Karen Gillan as the Eleventh Doctor and Amy Pond](http://www.themindrobber.co.uk/matt-smith-eleventh-doctor-amy-pond-karen-gillan.html) FYI, NSFW is internet lingo for not safe for work. I don’t know what acronym you were using, but all of those pics were SFW. hmph I sure wish these threads started with a poll. I would rate this episode average. I’m not a big fan of the new doc. He seems to be trying too hard to be the others docs. I was kind of hoping they would regenerate his personality into something dark rather than the same arrogant ass that 9 and 10 were. I really want these regeneration things to be a more dramatic shift. They should shake the audience up a little. I loved David Tennant, but I don’t need Matt Smith to play David Tennant playing Doctor Who. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/246 "2010-04-20T05:38:57Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > FYI, NSFW is internet lingo for not safe for work. I don’t know what acronym you were using, but all of those pics were SFW. hmph. The last two images show the companion in various stages of undress. They may not be nudie pics, but a lot of workplaces would still not want you looking that them during office hours. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/247 "2010-04-20T08:53:53Z")
There were so any shout-outs to other films that I stopped counting. I felt that the whole thing was far too rushed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/248 "2010-04-20T09:04:30Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part. That was stupid too. > > Weird how divided opinion is on this one. [Den of Geek](http://www.denofgeek.com/television/465918/doctor_who_series_5_episode_3_victory_of_the_daleks_review.html) liked it, but then they like pretty much everything, and when they dare to slightly dislike something, they apologize profusely and generally blame themselves for not getting it. But they got the Daleks right: > [@](#): > > What’s more interesting, though, is the Dalek masterplan here, which appears to be to resurface as the Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers. They look just as ridiculous as the Zords (i.e. mechs) on Power Rangers back when they had to actually use the toys on the show. Anyways, they didn’t gush, and admit shortcoming, and say the show can only be appreciated once you stop and see all the stuff they threw in, which fits what everyone who liked it here is saying. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/249 "2010-04-20T13:41:26Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > On the good side, I actually liked the new Dalek design (though I have to ask, why are they superior if they’re back to pure Dalek DNA, and how come the other Dalek’s were impure?). These probably have to be Daleks that survived **Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways** events (ninth Doctor, final episode) and searched the universe for a Progenitor device - Daleks created from the DNA of weak examples of humanity, rather than the pure Daleks of the _Cult of Skaro_ that hid in the void with the Genesis Ark between universes and released by the Cybermen. I wasn’t thrilled with the episode, and the whole “Broadsword/Danny Boy” (from Where Eagles Dare) was a bit too much, but I loved the Spitfires in space, and the whole _Independence Day_ style attack. And I love the multicoloured, new style Daleks - evil eyestalks, supercool rayguns and all. Si ---
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/250 "2010-04-20T13:58:06Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > To be fair, I’ll note that in the Fourth Doctor’s story _The Seeds of Doom_ Tom Baker waves a gun around and threatens people with it. (He never uses it and says he never would, still it’s a very violent story and the Doctor’s pretty brutal in it.) I seem to remember Baker quite happily snapping a neck at some point…(but Scobie gets better :dubious:) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsSKm2HPYXI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsSKm2HPYXI) Re: MOAR Daleks- the boy proclaimed ‘available soon at all fine retailers’ ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/251 "2010-04-20T16:04:18Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > I didn’t much care for this episode and agree with all the other criticisms, but not this. The Doctor was choosing between saving Earth and unleashing the Daleks on the universe once again. The Daleks that have been responsible for untold suffering and the destruction of Gallifrey. It’s arguable that the Doctor did not make the right choice in saving Earth and it wouldn’t surprise me if he comes to regret or second-guess the decision later. The Doctor would never choose to destroy Earth, even if it was the only way to stop the Daleks. It’s not a dilemma for him for two reasons. One, he’d never let the earth be destroyed on his watch. Two, he’s not scared of the Daleks. Yes, they will probably wreak terror and horror somewhere, but he’s the Doctor, he’s stopped them before and he’ll do it again. (I was going to point out how much Ten freaked out when human!Ten “committed genocide” but decided Eleven doesn’t need that baggage, Ten was probably just a bit insane). If he ever did choose to destroy the Earth, he quite simply would no longer be the Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/252 "2010-04-20T18:17:29Z")
That’s all fine and good, but it’s no less of a dilemma. Nip the problem in the bud now with tragic collateral damage or let it fester with potentially greater tragedies to come. As the audience, we know there will be no show without Earth, but the characters aren’t supposed to know that. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/253 "2010-04-20T18:43:16Z")
Yeah, but the show isn’t about entertaining the characters. It’s about entertaining the audience. There’s no narrative tension if we all know what the Doctor is going to choose, and why he’s going to choose it, and why he’s going to make that choice every time. Contrast that to the 2nd episode, which had its problems, but at least the problem the Doctor faced (killing the space whale or all the people on the ship) had _some_ narrative tension. Or go back to The End of Time, when he was trying to decide who to shoot and why. There was some real tension there. Now, in both cases there was a 3rd alternative that wasn’t readily apparent to the audience, thus saving him from the choice. In that way, this episode is a bit more interesting because there wasn’t a clever solution, just a bad choice and a worst choice. But as soon as the Daleks offered their ultimatum, you knew how it was going to play out. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/254 "2010-04-20T19:25:57Z")
Well, I like the fact that the Daleks know the Doctor’s weakness and got away. I was expecting the Doctor to save Earth, pull a trick out his sleeve and defeat the Daleks this time for good we really mean it this time no really, and they come back anyway. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/255 "2010-04-20T20:29:16Z")
I’m not sure the Doctor has the stomach to wipe out the Daleks. Last time the half Human Doctor did it while The Doctor was busy in the Tardis. He was pissed too. Exiled the half Human Doctor into that parallel universe with Rose. Some blather about him being born in “war, full of anger etc”. Basically the half Human Doctor had the nads to do what he couldn’t. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, I like the fact that the Daleks know the Doctor’s weakness and got away. I was expecting the Doctor to save Earth, pull a trick out his sleeve and defeat the Daleks this time for good we really mean it this time no really, and they come back anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/256 "2010-04-20T20:37:34Z")
What? Katy Manning is going to be in Sarah Jane Adventures, playing Jo Grant?? That’s unexpected in a pleasing way! ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/257 "2010-04-20T20:40:20Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > I didn’t much care for this episode and agree with all the other criticisms, but not this. The Doctor was choosing between saving Earth and unleashing the Daleks on the universe once again. The Daleks that have been responsible for untold suffering and the destruction of Gallifrey. It’s arguable that the Doctor did not make the right choice in saving Earth and it wouldn’t surprise me if he comes to regret or second-guess the decision later. Good choice or bad, it’s one the Doctor has made before consistently. He will not sacrifice Earth for any reasons and specifically not to wipe out the Daleks. Wiping them out itself hasn’t been the Doctor’s goal through most of his life, rather he usually tries to neutralize them. The Fourth Doctor didn’t commit genocide in _Genesis of the Daleks_ and even the Seventh Doctor couldn’t just kill them all in _Remembrance of the Daleks_. He felt a need to manipulate them into destroying Skaro for him and even then he didn’t destroy all Daleks, but only most of them. (He had no such qualms exterminating the Cybermen, which I find interesting. I think it’s because he doesn’t believe they are alive anymore, differently from the Daleks, evil though they are.) More relevant to this discussion is _Dalek_ and _The Parting of the Ways_. After the Time War the Doctor apparently felt such hatred for the Daleks he seemed gleeful(!) for the opportunity to kill some more. He was also clearly terrified by them, which is very unusual for the character. Even so the Ninth Doctor decided he couldn’t destroy them at the cost of the Earth even if the stakes where significantly lower this first time he had the option (as the majority of the human race didn’t live on the home planet anymore so that it’s loss wouldn’t mean the extinction of humanity.) After this the Doctor seemed to find some measure of inner peace. He still hated the Daleks, but could control himself much better around them. Even after he lost Rose as a direct consequence of the Daleks’ actions in _Doomsday_, the Tenth Doctor managed to propose a truce of sorts with them in _Evolution of the Daleks_. He was positively furious with his clone when he apparently succeeded in killing off the Daleks in _Journey’s End_. Note that this time around the Daleks not only almost managed to destroy the universe (again!) but also cost him a companion (again!). To have the Doctor agonizing over this decision one more time is useless IMO. It’s a huge leap back in terms of characterization as well as being poor storytelling: we already know what he’ll choose and neither he nor the audience learns anything new from it. P.S. I still want to know how and why original Dalek DNA makes for superior Daleks. That the Daleks themselves would think so is ok by me, but the Doctor seemed to agree with this opinion. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/258 "2010-04-20T20:48:22Z")
Katy Manning NSFW > **[This domain has been registered for a customer by nicsell](http://six-shooter.de/en)** > > This domain six-shooter.de was registered successfully by nicsell due to a customer order and will be moved soon. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/259 "2010-04-20T20:53:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Katy Manning > NSFW > [http://www.six-shooter.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/katy\_manning0003.jpg](http://www.six-shooter.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/katy_manning0003.jpg) I knew what this pic was before I clicked it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/260 "2010-04-20T22:06:06Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > To have the Doctor agonizing over this decision one more time is useless IMO. It’s a huge leap back in terms of characterization as well as being poor storytelling: we already know what he’ll choose and neither he nor the audience learns anything new from it. So…the assumption in any episode should be that the viewer has watched any and all episodes previously? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=14)