# Doctor Who Series Five: UK pace thread \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851 "2010-04-03T21:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/561 "2010-05-30T14:31:47Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > [spoiler]Yep, that’d all tie in with my theories. Definitely some major series arc stuff will happen in the last two episodes. > > I’m guessing that River Song doing time for murder will be the result of her role in the death of alterna-Doctor in the universe next door. And that the two Doctors have been crossing into each other’s time lines/universes because of the crack, which could mean that the jacket-wearing Doctor in Flesh and Stone was in fact the _other_ Doctor… > [/spoiler] (Since these are all just speculations I don’t understand the spoiler box …) I’d vote for them just using different takes this time even though I agree with the basic arc speculations and do think that the Doctor in the forest with Amy wearing the jacket was intentional - and more in tone like the Doctor at the end of this episode: Amy _remembering_ will somehow be key to undoing or preventing major revisions/collisions of different timelines. I like River Song but the way its been written she would have to pop into his life over many years. I don’t see them doing that. I suspect that she’s going get relegated to another timeline (like Rose sort of). ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/562 "2010-05-31T03:02:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (Since these are all just speculations I don’t understand the spoiler box …) Spoiler boxes because some folks don’t want to see speculation just in case it turns out to be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/563 "2010-05-31T03:15:38Z")
Oh yeah, when Amy starts talking about “unpopulated” areas of planet Earth, what’s the first one in the list? The Australian outback… where people have been continuously living since Europe was covered by glaciers and _long_ before any humans got to the Americas. I’m certain it wasn’t intentional, but it actually worked quite well in the plot as an example of human ignorance and arrogance when dealing with other humans, let alone another species… probably best for all concerned if the lizards do go back into hiding. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/564 "2010-05-31T03:30:33Z")
“Unpopulated” is relative. Nowhere she listed is truly unpopulated, but they are very empty and would arguably suit a cold blooded race of people, as opposed to the only truly unpopulated area in the world, Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/565 "2010-05-31T03:48:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > “Unpopulated” is relative. Nowhere she listed is truly unpopulated, but they are very empty and would arguably suit a cold blooded race of people, as opposed to the only truly unpopulated area in the world, Antarctica. Which is exactly the kind of reasoning that has led to whole cultures getting wiped out in the recent past. Unpopulated isn’t “relative” if you have relatives that live there. You know, how populated is your home? One resident? Couple of people? Seems like a statistically insignificant number to me, I think I’ll just bulldoze that vacant land and build an apartment block there. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/566 "2010-05-31T03:57:36Z")
Well that was a bummer. Stupid humans. Why would you have a warrior class unless you had someone to go to war with? Kind of hard for the reptiles to claim they’re all peaceful and stuff. Oh, and I think the Earth and moon came into alignment a little before there were apes running around to be hunted for sport. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/567 "2010-05-31T04:08:54Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > You know, how populated is your home? One resident? Couple of people? Seems like a statistically insignificant number to me, I think I’ll just bulldoze that vacant land and build an apartment block there. Wow. You seem to have extrapolated the worst case scenario out of a few words. They were looking for places to house a race of millions. Can you suggest anywhere, off the top of your head, that would work for the cold blooded? It was a negotiation, after all, and they were just putting forward some options; nowhere did anyone suggest removing those who were already living there. In Australia, the population of the Outback areas seems to number around 300,000, which in an area of that size is about 1 person per 20 square kilometres. That is empty enough for housing a new population. Also keep in mind it’s just a Science Fiction kid’s TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/568 "2010-05-31T08:30:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Wow. You seem to have extrapolated the worst case scenario out of a few words. They were looking for places to house a race of millions. Can you suggest anywhere, off the top of your head, that would work for the cold blooded? It was a negotiation, after all, and they were just putting forward some options; nowhere did anyone suggest removing those who were already living there. > > In Australia, the population of the Outback areas seems to number around 300,000, which in an area of that size is about 1 person per 20 square kilometres. That is empty enough for housing a new population. > > Also keep in mind it’s just a Science Fiction kid’s TV show. Which is why I mentioned it: the writers accidentally managed to provide a perfect example of why it was a good idea for the lizard people to go back into hibernation. Human beings - as you yourself just perfectly demonstrated - are quite comfortable with the idea of other human beings being classified as unimportant and having their rights ignored. You just classified a whole lot of my countrymen as insignificant. And you just offered a whole lot of my country’s valuable territory to a bunch of Lizard-people, without even taking the time to learn whether there’s anything valuable there or not. (HINT: there is.) Going to war with the Lizard People will have to wait, first we’re going to war with _you_. OK, _now_ do you get it? _That_’s why the Silurians are better off going back into hibernation: Because humans aren’t, in general, humanitarian enough to respect the rights of other human beings, let alone another sentient species. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/569 "2010-05-31T08:53:40Z")
You’re saying “There are no empty places, because wherever you go populations already live there,” and I’m saying “If you need space for people, you first check the obvious large empty areas to see if they might, or might not, work. You have to start somewhere, and it’s a good beginning step.” You think my reasoning is selfish; I think your reasoning is unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/570 "2010-05-31T10:05:27Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Which is why I mentioned it: the writers accidentally managed to provide a perfect example of why it was a good idea for the lizard people to go back into hibernation. > > Human beings - as you yourself just perfectly demonstrated - are quite comfortable with the idea of other human beings being classified as unimportant and having their rights ignored. You just classified a whole lot of my countrymen as insignificant. And you just offered a whole lot of my country’s valuable territory to a bunch of Lizard-people, without even taking the time to learn whether there’s anything valuable there or not. (HINT: there is.) > > Going to war with the Lizard People will have to wait, first we’re going to war with _you_. > > OK, _now_ do you get it? _That_’s why the Silurians are better off going back into hibernation: Because humans aren’t, in general, humanitarian enough to respect the rights of other human beings, let alone another sentient species. I don’t know where you get the idea that allowing someone to live somewhere means you are treating the other residents as being insignificant. Do you think that, if you get a new neighbor, your rights are not being respected? That’s the general thrust of **GuanoLad** ’s interpretation. The only right I think you could be talking about is the right to own land, and, really, all private land is leased from the government (as, without that government, your ownership claim would be worthless), And I see no reason that government ought not to be able to buy out that lease. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/571 "2010-05-31T13:40:28Z")
How many Silurians are we talking? A million? With high technology? Northern California. No prob. Fit right in. Inter-species dating and marriage, right around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/572 "2010-05-31T15:19:33Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You’re saying “There are no empty places, because wherever you go populations already live there,” and I’m saying “If you need space for people, you first check the obvious large empty areas to see if they might, or might not, work. You have to start somewhere, and it’s a good beginning step.” > > You think my reasoning is selfish; I think your reasoning is unrealistic. And I’ll say it again; there are **no** large empty areas on planet earth. **Everywhere** is owned by someone. **Owned**. The inhospitable places that you seem to believe are vacant wastelands are, in most cases, very valuable land. The Australian outback? That’s where [our biggest industry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Australia) all happens. The land itself might look worthless to you, but you might just want to check with a geologist before you start donating it to homeless Silurians. What about the vast trackless wastes of Arabia? [It’s quite valuable real estate, actually.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghawwar_Field) And so on. Find me any large “empty” area on planet Earth, and I’ll find you not only a human population, but an economic, environmental, or strategic value that will exclude it from the bargaining. Functionally, realistically, there are **no** large areas of vacant land on the planet. Realistically, **levdrakon** has the right idea: integration into existing human societies is the way we’d have to work it. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/573 "2010-05-31T19:20:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Oh yeah, shouldn’t there be some consequences for murdering an alien? Just because she’s pissed off, she gets away with it? > > The prisoner was chained up. It bothers me that woman gets away with murder. Shouldn’t there be an intergalactic court or something for her to face? The Silaurians attacked first. They took her son and her husband. The prisoner was also gloating about killing (or trying to) kill her father. The Silaurians were going to war and intended to kill humanity to the last. Sorry I don’t have any sympathy for them. So what if they humans were drilling on their home? They had no way to know that and no reason to expect anyone to be living down there. They were not intentionally attacking. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/574 "2010-05-31T19:26:47Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How many Silurians are we talking? A million? With high technology? Northern California. No prob. Fit right in. Inter-species dating and marriage, right around the corner. Put 'em in Southern California and within a week there would be a whole category of Silurian/Human porn, especially if they look like the one who was captured. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/575 "2010-05-31T21:13:05Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > The Silaurians attacked first. Not exactly, no. The reptiles were acting in self defence. The humans drilling put the reptiles in danger, and was believed to be an attack. After that, there was blame on both sides, as well as good people wanting peace between the races. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/576 "2010-05-31T23:14:15Z")
Boy some people take their sci-fi seriously. No, no place is empty, and no place is worthless. But people have their land bought from them by eminent domain all the time and “settlers” (and from the Silurian POV, any “apes” anywhere are settlers) have been moved against their will if it is thought that it serves the greater good. And probably, if given the option, few humans on the Outback (or other relatively sparsely populated areas) would choose to stay on as a minority in a Silurian majority area. And if you were a Silurian would you want to live as a minority in an ape city? Right off? Sounds like a spin-off: [“Silurian Nation”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Nation_(1989_TV_series)). ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/577 "2010-06-01T01:06:14Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Realistically, **levdrakon** has the right idea: integration into existing human societies is the way we’d have to work it. ??? How is integrating them where there are lots of people any different to integrating them where there are only a few people? Is this a NIMBY thing? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/578 "2010-06-01T01:17:25Z")
It seems to me that the reptiles have a perfectly good city of their own to live in. They wouldn’t need to take land above ground. As long as the humans know where not to drill, they can live as separate neigbouring nations, which allow tourists and businessmen to travel between them, under visa. No problem, as long as they respect each others’ borders. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/579 "2010-06-01T01:27:56Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > It seems to me that the reptiles have a perfectly good city of their own to live in. They wouldn’t need to take land above ground. As long as the humans know where not to drill, they can live as separate neigbouring nations, which allow tourists and businessmen to travel between them, under visa. No problem, as long as they respect each others’ borders. Remember that the bulk of the reptilian population were in some form of stasis. If they were revived could the city have supported them all? I don’t think the naming of “uninhabited” regions of the Earth was made for any specific reason other than the fact that most people woud recognise them. I did like the mention of Nevada… The Reptilians could open their own casino! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/580 "2010-06-01T13:10:47Z")
Is there any reason to believe that the Crack isn’t just the result of the TARDIS getting destroyed? The Doctor destroyed it in the dream world. Amy may have even watched closely enough to see how to do it. From the piece of the TARDIS found in the crack, I’m thinking the TARDIS is the cause, not just something that got tossed into it. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=30)