# Doctor Who Series Five: UK pace thread \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851 "2010-04-03T21:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/141 "2010-04-12T13:55:35Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > One, what I’m going to call a plot hole, here, and maybe someone can explain it. Opening scene, Little Boy gets in trouble in school (he got a zero?) and then takes the lift instead of the stairs. Which makes him a bad boy. And…the sentence is death? For bad grades? Well no, because the space whale doesn’yt eat children. WHich raises the question of what the point is. The only answer I have thought of is as a means to procure cheap labour for beneath. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/142 "2010-04-12T14:00:34Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Well no, because the space whale doesn’yt eat children. WHich raises the question of what the point is. The only answer I have thought of is as a means to procure cheap labour for beneath. Well, to be fair, I figured that the process was in place before the people in charge knew about the whale-doesn’t-eat-children thing. As a matter of fact, the look of the Underboss guy when he said that really gave the impression of “and we really don’t know what to do with the bastards.” -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/143 "2010-04-12T14:15:51Z")
The downstairs boss said that they were in the habit of sending useless people or poor performers or something like that “beneath”, which explains the dumb kid’s getting dumped. All in all, I thought this episode was pure Steven Moffat - paper thin on things like plot, consistency, sci-fi rules, etc, but gloriously heavy on emotion and character. I enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/144 "2010-04-12T14:34:19Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > One, what I’m going to call a plot hole, here, and maybe someone can explain it. Opening scene, Little Boy gets in trouble in school (he got a zero?) and then takes the lift instead of the stairs. Which makes him a bad boy. And…the sentence is death? For bad grades? That was really just a gimmick to get the kiddies interested in the show. Remember, Doctor Who is sometimes called a kid’s show, but it’s not really. What it is is something much harder to do well: a family show that has to keep the four year olds and the forty year olds equally engaged. The rest of the show was a bit complicated for kids didn’t have a lot for them to grasp on to. But how do you make a police state understandable and scary to a little kid? Simple: if you don’t do your homework, they KILL you!!! 😃 Between that and the whale at the end who likes kids, I think most single-digit fans will remember the show as fun and scary, while most of us well into the double digits seem to have really liked it too. A tricky thing to pull off, really. > [@](#): > > But…it’s not. The is absolutely standard science fiction. Is it inaccurate physics? Certainly. Now tell me how many scifi/space opera movies or TV shows you can think of that show a ship cruising through space without the engines being lit? > > If it makes you feel better, think of it this way. It’s unlikely they’d just shut the engines down completely. At least keep them idling in case they need them. There is a difference between showing the ship with engines glowing and making a huge plot point out of “The engines aren’t working but the ship is moving. IT CANNOT BE!” Plus, usually the engines are making the ship go FTL, which obviously goes beyond normal physics anyway. This was a generation ship and it seemed to be travelling quite slowly. Why wouldn’t they shut the engines down if they weren’t going to need them for hundreds of years? And some shows have gotten the physics of sublight acceleration right (or at least tried). _Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica_ and _2001_ come to mind. I’m sure their were others. My wife did, and the only exposure she’s ever had to Discworld is the “Hogfather” miniseries. -Joe [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/145 "2010-04-12T15:05:44Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > There is a difference between showing the ship with engines glowing and making a huge plot point out of “The engines aren’t working but the ship is moving. IT CANNOT BE!” Plus, usually the engines are making the ship go FTL, which obviously goes beyond normal physics anyway. This was a generation ship and it seemed to be travelling quite slowly. Why wouldn’t they shut the engines down if they weren’t going to need them for hundreds of years? Actually, from what I’ve read you’re wrong. On a regular, Newtonian non-FTL ship the engines would ALWAYS be running. For the first half of your journey you’d be accelerating continually. For the second half you’d be decelerating continually. That’s how you’d get there in the shortest time. And your engines would be burning the whole time. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/146 "2010-04-12T15:27:25Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Actually, from what I’ve read you’re wrong. On a regular, Newtonian non-FTL ship the engines would ALWAYS be running. For the first half of your journey you’d be accelerating continually. For the second half you’d be decelerating continually. > > That’s how you’d get there in the shortest time. And your engines would be burning the whole time. > > -Joe But that’s just for the sake of convenience - it shortens the time of the journey considerably. If you didn’t care how long it took, you could easily coast the whole way with no engines. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/147 "2010-04-12T16:01:50Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > But that’s just for the sake of convenience - it shortens the time of the journey considerably. If you didn’t care how long it took, you could easily coast the whole way with no engines. Was there something in this episode that gave you the idea they weren’t happy to be going faster? I don’t see shortening a long trip as a matter of “convenient”. I don’t see anyone building generation ships because they want to, they do it because they have to. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/148 "2010-04-12T16:04:29Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Actually, from what I’ve read you’re wrong. On a regular, Newtonian non-FTL ship the engines would ALWAYS be running. For the first half of your journey you’d be accelerating continually. For the second half you’d be decelerating continually. > > That’s how you’d get there in the shortest time. And your engines would be burning the whole time. > > -Joe Ok, that’s a good point. **Smeghead** is correct, of course, but I’m willing to fanwank it by saying that from what the Doctor knows about the conventions of space travel and the type of ship they were on, the ship WOULD have had its engines on. Still, I wish he had simply said that he saw the ship _accelerating_ through space, instead of merely moving through space. (Though I suppose arguably “moving” through space _means_ accelerating, since from the ship’s own POV, it isn’t moving if it isn’t accelerating. Ok, that’s what I’m going with. Fanwank accomplished.) ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/149 "2010-04-12T16:12:07Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > The downstairs boss said that they were in the habit of sending useless people or poor performers or something like that “beneath”, which explains the dumb kid’s getting dumped. > > All in all, I thought this episode was pure Steven Moffat - paper thin on things like plot, consistency, sci-fi rules, etc, but gloriously heavy on emotion and character. I enjoyed it. Yeah, I agree that’s a perfect description of Moffat’s work, and one of the reasons I’m still not entirely looking forward to the rest of the season. Also, I sort of think that Liz 10 and her cabinet (or whoever those people were) should have been punished for what they’ve done. They apparently automatically assumed that the star whale who appears out of nowhere (and has been known to _guide_ ships) needs to be tortured horribly to work. And how did they subdue the whale long enough to build a ship around it? They’re apparently completely incompetent but they can shoot a whale out of the sky? Or they can imprison a whale and build a spaceship around it in space? Did they already have a ship built and they were just looking for an engine or a whale or some shit? Did any of them never think that you don’t have to be horrible barbarians to make this work? I know Liz 10 thought she was making the best possible decision, but it’s such an obviously bad decision (compounded with _murder_ and child slavery) that she is clearly not fit to rule (I know Amy made her abdicate, but I would have liked some sort of trial or at least an acknowledgement that she’s horrible). ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/150 "2010-04-12T16:42:21Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > And for all the over-the-top emotional manipulation going on, it worked. I _did_ cry. Yes, I’m a big old geeky crybaby. Don’t mock me or I’ll take my action figures and go home, so there! I, for one, am not mocking at all, Alan. I cried too. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/151 "2010-04-12T16:55:17Z")
Uh oh! You were supposed to press the forget button after reading that! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/152 "2010-04-12T17:36:18Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Also, I sort of think that Liz 10 and her cabinet (or whoever those people were) should have been punished for what they’ve done. Who’s to say they didn’t? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/153 "2010-04-12T19:58:26Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > And having specifically mentioned that the Scots had gone their own way, why was it still considered the UK? England and Scotland _uniting_ is the reason it’s called the UK! 🙂 The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland remember! We’re still there, being towed along in the wake of the whale. There’s probably a Wales/Whales joke to be had 🙂 > [@Merijeek](#): > > The whale, now that it’s under its own control, will likely stop off to eat occasionally - it can do that now that it doesn’t have a cattle prod jammed in its brain. Or, if you prefer the more macabre explanation, the dead folks are being dropped in. Plus, they had feeding tubes jammed into the whale - The Doctor comments on it when they’re in the mouth Occasionally it swallows some planetoids or lands and munches a bit of a larger planet. [Ah wait](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx#The_Lexx)… ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/154 "2010-04-13T15:51:00Z")
In the term _United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland_, Great Britain refers to the big island, as opposed to the smaller Irish island, so without Scotland it should become the _United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland_… Maybe my 20th & 21st century background led to me misunderstanding what the letters UK stood for on the 29th Century spaceship! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/155 "2010-04-13T16:00:52Z")
I’m not sure about that: The United Kingdom of Great Britain part came about because of the unification of the two kingdoms on the island of Great Britain, so the current name of the country is (The United Kingdom of Great Britain) _and_ Northern Ireland. If Scotland buggers off on a ship powered by a giant space-haggis, it’s the “United Kingdom” bit that needs changing. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/156 "2010-04-13T16:26:25Z")
You’re probably right, but I was trying to justify it’s use on the spaceship… And if, as it seemed, all the different counties were separate towerblocks, how did they get to London by going _up_ 20 levels? Also, did anyone else think ‘_Cities in Flight_’ by **James Blish** when they saw the opening shot of the city in space? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/157 "2010-04-13T16:51:56Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > If Scotland buggers off on a ship powered by a giant space-haggis. [. . .] Oh, man! Why didn’t they do _that_ episode??? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/158 "2010-04-13T23:12:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Amy’s bf Rory’s badge says it was issued Nov 30, 1990. Nineteen years earlier. That would make him nearly 40 (assuming he got the job at age 20). Yet he doesn’t look older than 25. > > I think the crack did something to time in that village. The Doctor seemed genuinely shocked that 12 years had passed. Then 2 more years passed that the Doctor didn’t expect. > > I haven’t worked out why Rory hasn’t aged much since 1990. I think we’ll see him again this season and learn more. I was at a Q&A with Steven Moffat, Matt Smith & Karen Gillan today and someone brought up the ID card. Moffat said that he hadn’t even looked at the date on the ID card and that it’s not a clue to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/159 "2010-04-13T23:30:37Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I was at a Q&A with Steven Moffat, Matt Smith & Karen Gillan today and someone brought up the ID card. Moffat said that he hadn’t even looked at the date on the ID card and that it’s not a clue to anything. Damn. I hope we get to see Jack Davenport in something Whovian at some point. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851/160 "2010-04-14T00:38:48Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I was at a Q&A with Steven Moffat, Matt Smith & Karen Gillan today and someone brought up the ID card. Moffat said that he hadn’t even looked at the date on the ID card and that it’s not a clue to anything. Argh! I originally thought it was just a mistake, but I was coming around to the “It’s A Clue” idea. Oh well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-five-uk-pace-thread-edited-title/534851.md?page=9)