# Doctor Who - Series Six - Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860 "2011-08-24T03:38:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/201 "2011-09-10T21:12:02Z")
I cried. Fuck me did I cry. I’m not sure I can ever watch that episode again. Amazing writing and acting on behalf of Gillan - I hope she gets the Bafta as she definitely deserves it. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/202 "2011-09-10T21:19:30Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I won’t say more until our US friends have seen it, but OMFG. Manly tears. It’s a slow burner, but stick with it. Classic Who. > > Edit: Mind, I’m a sentimental fool Aaaaaargh. Doesn’t air here (PDT) for four more hours but I won’t even get to watch it then as I’m being dragged to a party. Might have to wait until tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/203 "2011-09-11T02:15:04Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I cried. Fuck me did I cry. I blubbered through a third of it, with the noble inevitability of it all. Great makeup. ETA: Is it “noble inevitability” that allows manly tears? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/204 "2011-09-11T02:20:13Z")
Dang. That was even better than _The Doctor’s Wife_. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/205 "2011-09-11T02:25:08Z")
So the Master could make the Doctor’s TARDIS into a [paradox machine](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Paradox_machine), supporting millions of beings killing their own ancestors, but the doctor couldn’t alter his TARDIS to support one paradox. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/206 "2011-09-11T02:25:53Z")
I don’t know how they did such a great job aging Amy. She really, really, really looked like a 50 year old woman. Not that fake old person look like you see in Star Trek (when a virus makes everyone old). Prosthetics give that fake old age look. That was like seeing another actress. The skin on the face had that middle aged sag. Lines on her forehead. I bet her tits sagged too without a bra. 😃 That was the best aged make up I’ve ever seen. The actress did an amazing job too with the slightly slower speech and slower walk. I’m going to watch Confidential in a few minutes and see how they did this. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/207 "2011-09-11T02:33:51Z")
Great story, great acting, great make-up, and great photography (nice use of depth of field and focus pulling). Brilliant stuff. Only thing that bothered me was that last season Rory was the Boy Who Waited and Amy had the hard choice, and this was just inverting the same themes. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/208 "2011-09-11T02:39:36Z")
We’ve now seen this three times with: Rory waiting for the Pandoricon to open House making Amy think Rory had waited an entire lifetime for her This episode IMO, it’s getting pretty tired. This episode felt to me like emotional manipulation. Yeah, it made me tear up, but it seemed engineered just to make me upset. Especially because none of the conflicts would have even happened if they had been using common sense in the first five minutes. That is: “Hey, don’t go in there, we’re still waiting for Amy” or, failing that, “Which button?” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/209 "2011-09-11T03:38:29Z")
Confidential showed them putting on Karen’s prosthetics. It had me fooled. I thought she was bare faced and maybe some cotton in the mouth to puff out the cheeks. Heck of a good job on the prosthetics. ---
**Author:** ![CorneaGenii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@CorneaGenii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CorneaGenii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/210 "2011-09-11T04:21:27Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I cried. Fuck me did I cry. > [@dropzone](#): > > I blubbered through a third of it, with the noble inevitability of it all. ☹ _sniff_ Let me see where I’m at with my Loss of Manly Dignity scorecard for New Who: Series 1 - 3 eps Series 2 - 2 eps Series 3 - 1 ep Series 4 - 5 eps Series 5 - 4 eps Series 6 - 4 eps…and probably more to come. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/211 "2011-09-11T05:25:57Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > We’ve now seen this three times with: > > Rory waiting for the Pandoricon to open > House making Amy think Rory h**ad waited an entire lifetime for her > This episode** > > IMO, it’s getting pretty tired. This episode felt to me like emotional manipulation. Yeah, it made me tear up, but it seemed engineered just to make me upset. Especially because none of the conflicts would have even happened if they had been using common sense in the first five minutes. > > That is: “Hey, don’t go in there, we’re still waiting for Amy” or, failing that, “Which button?” Good point, but this episode is redeemed by Karen Gillian’s incredible acting. Wow. Just, wow. I have a gut feeling that this is intentional. I mean, here we have Amy waiting for the Doctor _again_; and now we’ve seen all three major characters die. I think Moffat is deliberately playing with the ethical dilemmas of time travel. And the makeup designer deserves a BAFTA as well; like **aceplace57** said, this is the best job of aging an actor I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/212 "2011-09-11T05:27:16Z")
Just watched it. WOW. That was harsh. I liked combat Amy. The makeup was amazing - most realistic aging I’ve ever seen. I loved the blocking of the scene where future Amy and past Amy were talking through the screen, about why Rory was the one. The visual presentation of both their faces side by side with the same tilt and all - stellar. The time paradox part was really head-scratching. She didn’t just disappear when past Amy reached the TARDIS, or when the TARDIS disappeared. Apparently they made an alternate timeline or something. Which means future Amy was right, they’re killing her. I was thinking there might have been a way to force future Amy’s memories and merge with past Amy. But I think this is more satisfying from a “brutal truth” kind of view. By the way, Amy is BadASS! She hacked the computer, destroyed the handbots, and created a sonic [del]probe[/del] screwdriver. She is The Awesome. “Sit down, Rory.” ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/213 "2011-09-11T05:34:20Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Just watched it. WOW. That was harsh. I liked combat Amy. > > ~ > > The time paradox part was really head-scratching. She didn’t just disappear when past Amy reached the TARDIS, or when the TARDIS disappeared. Apparently they made an alternate timeline or something. Which means future Amy was right, they’re killing her. > > I was thinking there might have been a way to force future Amy’s memories and merge with past Amy. But I think this is more satisfying from a “brutal truth” kind of view. Future Amy reminded me of River. Probably not by accident. Especially the scene where she was mowing down the robots was similar to River taking down the Silence. We didn’t really see whether or not she disappeared when the Tardis did the Tardis left and the whole thing faded to white. I took it as that whole timeline was being erased. And Future and Past Amy merging would’ve been too similar to Rory remembering (sometimes) his time as the Roman soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/214 "2011-09-11T06:08:37Z")
There comes a point when forgiveness is no longer possible, and I really thought Rory had reached his limit with the Doctor. I was waiting for him to say, “Just take us home. Now. We’re done.” Karen Gillian was fantastic, too. How many more episodes are left? ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/215 "2011-09-11T07:26:19Z")
Amy and Rory have seen each other tormented for decades because of the Doctor. They have lost their child because of him. Sure, you can argue that the previous times were because of the interference of the Doctor’s enemies, but this time it was sheer bloody incompetence. I’m only familiar with nuWho. Have any of the Doctor’s companions ever just walked away in disgust before? Rory seemed close to it at the end of that episode, and Amy could see how her future self had grown to loathe the Doctor. I wonder if the Doctor’s growing guilt is all building up to sacrificing himself in Utah to somehow bring the war against the Silence to an end. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/216 "2011-09-11T07:28:24Z")
A few points about Rory’s 2000 year long vigil: 1. He was made of plastic then - he didn’t age. It’s all well & good to waste eons of time if you’re going to look perpetually 25. If you’re flesh & bone (real flesh, not “Ganger Flesh”) and your youth and most of your lifespan is simply going to slip away pointlessly, then 36 years is a much bigger sacrifice. 2 Although plastic Rory stood by Amy’s side all that time, he was on Earth, not a sterile, empty hospital with only weiird faceless robots who were constantly trying to (unintentionally) kill him. He had other people to interact with, pass the time with, and keep him company while he waited. Sure, he probably kept the truth about himself a secret, but I can’t imagine 2000 years went by without some form of human interaction taking place. I thought that the crippling loneliness that Amy faced being there all by herself was what really drove older Amy around the bend. 1. Rory already said in “Day of the Moon” that he doesn’t really remember those two millenia - they were like half-remembered dreams to him. Any trauma he had from them was erased when the Doctor re-booted the universe. And on an unrelated note, I found this exchange rather significant: > [@](#): > > “Sometimes knowing your own future’s what enables you to change it, especially if you’re bloody-minded, contradictory, and completely unpredictable.” > > “So basically if you’re Amy, then.” > > “Yes. If anyone can defeat predestiny, it’s your wife.” Or if you’re a Time Lord, who hasn’t yet let on to his friends that he _knows he will be murdered in Utah sometime in the future._ ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/217 "2011-09-11T07:37:34Z")
I really thought it was realistic, Amy would have been what; late fiftiesh? Usually when they try to make someone older, they give them greying hair and bad wrinkles and they change the facial structure. They did not do that there, she is a bit more wrinkly true and has filled up but she is still recognizably Amy Williams nee Pond. BTW I forgot to record Doctor Who Confidential, can any one tell me how the makeup was done. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/218 "2011-09-11T07:38:07Z")
> [@Galwegian](#): > > I’m only familiar with nuWho. Have any of the Doctor’s companions ever just walked away in disgust before? During the original run that ended in the 80’s, no. Although a couple of companions did die. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/219 "2011-09-11T07:40:56Z")
BTW whats the StraightDope on these two companions? Rumour had it that they were leaving at the end of this series and well two series is par for the course for Companions. OTH Gillan said she will be back. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/220 "2011-09-11T07:58:31Z")
> [@Marlitharn](#): > > How many more episodes are left? Three. The last two are typically a two-part finale, but I haven’t checked if this is still the case this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860.md?page=12)