# Doctor Who - Series Six - Part II **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860 "2011-08-24T03:38:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/361 "2011-09-18T21:35:59Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Don’t know if this illuminates things any further but since we are looking for “clews,” he follows that up with, “_Who else?_” a personal pronoun meaning it’s some-_one_ and not some-_thing_ or event. If I’m right, and it was Young Amy, he could very well be asking “who else’s life am I going to screw up?”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/362 "2011-09-18T21:41:22Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > If I’m right, and it was Young Amy, he could very well be asking “who else’s life am I going to screw up?”. > > -Joe I thought of that as “Who else would I have expected?” - I’m betting on some version of himself, “Dream Lord,” “Valeyard” or the version of himself that led the first human on Mars to kill herself. Either that or Rassilon… ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/363 "2011-09-18T22:01:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > . . . And what does The Doctor have faith in? . . . > [@Broomstick](#): > > When the Doctor looks into his room we also hear the cloister bell… so maybe his faith is in the TARDIS? Or that things will work out if you do the right thing. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > I thought of that as “Who else would I have expected?” - I’m betting on some version of himself, “Dream Lord,” “Valeyard” or the version of himself that led the first human on Mars to kill herself. Either that or Rassilon… That would be my first guess. Runners up would be the Master or a broken TARDIS (although would he say who for that?). ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/364 "2011-09-18T22:06:54Z")
Like others I’m starting to lean towards the Valeyard. It’s just too fertile a piece of Who lore to not explore, particularly given that they’re having the Doctor face up to his capacity to commit actions that can be viewed as evil (and isn’t that what the Valeyard is?). I’m not sure personally whether the dream lord from last series was tied into that, but I guess we’ll find out. ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/365 "2011-09-18T22:42:54Z")
De-lurking: I agree, the Valeyard or his “Dream Lord” incarnation might be a possible story arc. Next series maybe or (if it get’s another series) the one after? I know they are supposedly planning something Big for the 50th anniversary. Also…I love this thread. I might not post much but I check it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/366 "2011-09-18T22:50:33Z")
I have watched almost all of Doctor Who from its very early days, and until this thread, and this episode, I had never heard of the Cloister Bell. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/367 "2011-09-18T22:53:57Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I have watched almost all of Doctor Who from its very early days, and until this thread, and this episode, I had never heard of the Cloister Bell. The TARDIS’ Cloister Bell rings at times of immense peril (not just ordinary peril) - one recent example was just before the Earth was stolen. Here’s a link to a list of Cloister bell ringings (though oddly it doesn’t mention the one I mention above) [Cloister Bell | Tardis | Fandom](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cloister_Bell) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/368 "2011-09-19T09:39:20Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I have watched almost all of Doctor Who from its very early days, and until this thread, and this episode, I had never heard of the Cloister Bell. Eh? It rang all the time during the Baker years, and it has been explicitly referenced in the Tennant days too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/369 "2011-09-19T10:11:09Z")
I assumed, even before he opened the door, that what was in the Doctor’s room was Amy and/or Rory dead. Again. In his mind he had been responsible for so many of his companions being damaged or killed or turned into soldiers in an unending war (see \*Journey’s End \*for the bit about the Doctor turning people into weapons). We’ve seen his guilt over the last few companions, especially what happened to Donna (recapped in _Let’s Kill Hitler_). How many times in the past season and a half have we seen Amy and Rory killed in some way or turned into dolls or monsters or Autons or whatever? Here the Doctor is forced to face up to the fact that Amy believes he will always save her _even in the face of all that_ - in fact, even in the face of meeting an Amy that he didn’t save (last episode). I thought his parting speech confirmed the point - he was afraid that if they kept travelling with him eventually there would come a time when he couldn’t save them and he’d be faced with their “broken bodies”. And that thought terrifies him more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/370 "2011-09-19T10:27:37Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Eh? It rang all the time during the Baker years, and it has been explicitly referenced in the Tennant days too. I guess it went over my head as insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/371 "2011-09-19T12:30:51Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I guess it went over my head as insignificant. Agree with you there. I’m not going to pretend that during the Baker years I paid enough attention as a kid to have noticed. But I’ve never noticed the cloister bell in any of the new stuff. Huh. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/372 "2011-09-19T13:32:53Z")
{Snip…} > [@Smapti](#): > > The real cliffhanger here is the two big questions raised by what the Doctor saw in his room - what does the Doctor fear the most, and what does the Doctor have faith in, and why does the Doctor find it all so obvious when he sees it? {/snip…} It reminded me of The Curse of Fenric with Ace and Silvester McCoy - he has to talk her out of her faith with the Dr to save the day. Repitition :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/373 "2011-09-19T14:01:37Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I have watched almost all of Doctor Who from its very early days, and until this thread, and this episode, I had never heard of the Cloister Bell. It has happened a number of times - Check the [Tardis Wikia](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cloister_Bell) ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/374 "2011-09-19T14:07:03Z")
Just seen this quote from Gareth Roberts, writer of next weeks episode. Not really a spoiler, more of a set up for the next ep , but I’ve hidden it just in case you want to go in completely blind. Sounds interesting… It’s 200 years after “The God Complex” - for the Doctor, anyway. All the stuff you saw at the very beginning of “The Impossible Astronaut”, with him waving to Amy through all time and space, he’s been doing that. But time is closing in on him and he can’t put off going to Lake Silencio and his doom. But before he does, he thinks he’ll make one last social call — and he ends up working in a shop and fighting the Cybermen. ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/375 "2011-09-19T15:49:07Z")
But that means everything that happened this season already happened for Rory and Amy, right? I mean, all the events this season happened after he gets killed at the lake, and now he’s dropped Rory and Amy off at home, where he will presumably contact them when it’s time for his death picnic - but then all the events this season stem from that first episode, which from Rory and Amy’s POV already happened, right? My head hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/376 "2011-09-19T15:51:27Z")
> [@Marlitharn](#): > > But that means everything that happened this season already happened for Rory and Amy, right? I mean, all the events this season happened after he gets killed at the lake, and now he’s dropped Rory and Amy off at home, where he will presumably contact them when it’s time for his death picnic - but then all the events this season stem from that first episode, which from Rory and Amy’s POV already happened, right? > > My head hurts. Presumably. Though keep in mind we still don’t know what The Doctor’s letter said. I’m assuming it involves his out… …but let’s also remember that there was a Silent at the picnic. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/377 "2011-09-19T15:54:43Z")
Don’t think so. The Doctor that contacted them in TIA was 200 years older, but the one that walked into the diner was in the same timeline as Rory and Amy. They all just carried on from that point. Just because Rory and Amy were living together in a house at the start of TIA, it doesn’t follow that this was the house where he left them at the end of TGC ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/378 "2011-09-19T16:15:33Z")
For a second there, I was afraid they were going to shoehorn in a ‘you gotta have faith in yourself!’-message into the episode – I think I breathed an audible sigh of relief when it became clear things weren’t going to go that way. But, when the Doctor dropped Amy off, the search for Melody didn’t even warrant a mention? No ‘wait, weren’t we going to try and save a kid or something?’? I haven’t really been bothered by the relative absence of parental worry so far, but this didn’t really ring true to me… And I think I missed a bit of explanation – why was the Minotaur in the holotel-spaceship? It was a prison, they said – for him? Then why did people keep coming aboard? There was something about wardens, but I didn’t quite get that… I really liked the scene where the Doctor essentially explains to the Muslim doctor how he tempts other people with the promise of all of time and space, and how rotten this basically is, and though he knows that, he just couldn’t help himself – and then goes right on to try it on her. It was somehow both sad and funny. ---
**Author:** ![velveeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/13edae/32.png) [@velveeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velveeta)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/379 "2011-09-19T16:18:48Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > But, when the Doctor dropped Amy off, the search for Melody didn’t even warrant a mention? No ‘wait, weren’t we going to try and save a kid or something?’? I haven’t really been bothered by the relative absence of parental worry so far, but this didn’t really ring true to me… It’s sort of mentioned. Amy says something like, “If you see my daughter, tell her to stop in and say hi.” I think they consider her already saved at this point. ETA, I also want to know if that’s the same house as the one they are in at the beginning of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860/380 "2011-09-19T16:26:14Z")
> [@velveeta](#): > > It’s sort of mentioned. Amy says something like, “If you see my daughter, tell her to stop in and say hi.” > I think they consider her already saved at this point. Completely missed that. Thanks! > [@](#): > > ETA, I also want to know if that’s the same house as the one they are in at the beginning of the season. It can’t be, can it? To Amy and Rory, their living in that house is in the past, so they can’t just now get it, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-six-part-ii/593860.md?page=20)