# Doctor Who: The End of Time - SPOILERS! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459 "2009-11-21T21:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/161 "2010-01-08T21:46:41Z")
And it almost blew a whole in the Universe the size of _Belgium!_ (Although that may have been due to the merging of two Tardises - Tardi - Tardes - it’s all a bit wibbly-wobbly. When the ninth Doctor and Rose crossed into their own past (“Father’s Day”), it created a vulnerable spot in time, but the really bad stuff didn’t happen until Rose interfered with events, and later when she touched herself (ahem). Different incarnations of the Doctor seem to have no problem with being in the same room in “The Three Doctors” and “The Five Doctors,” but they were deliberately brought together by the Time Lords of Gallifrey, who may have arranged some sort of protective measures. This wouldn’t apply to “The Two Doctors,” but that story does quite a number on continuity anyway. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/162 "2010-01-08T21:52:15Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > And it almost blew a whole in the Universe the size of _Belgium!_ It’s rather undramatic when you put it that way. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/163 "2010-01-08T22:29:34Z")
Yes, but I deliberately spelled “hole” with a “w” to make it look bigger! No, sadly, I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/164 "2010-01-08T22:52:19Z")
I’m curious where the Chick from the library fits in the timeline. She obviously expected the doctor in that body to recognize her, and he didn’t I guess it would have to be an off camera interaction between the library and the end of time, but she gave the impression of years of relationship. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/165 "2010-01-08T22:59:56Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I’m curious where the Chick from the library fits in the timeline. She obviously expected the doctor in that body to recognize her, and he didn’t I guess it would have to be an off camera interaction between the library and the end of time, but she gave the impression of years of relationship. That’s a good question. I remember wondering about that too. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/166 "2010-01-08T23:14:41Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I’m curious where the Chick from the library fits in the timeline. She obviously expected the doctor in that body to recognize her, and he didn’t I guess it would have to be an off camera interaction between the library and the end of time, but she gave the impression of years of relationship. If River Song had the kind of relationship where the Doctor told her his real name, then she would also learn who he was no matter which regeneration he was in. But she wouldn’t be able to know which order they came in. I think that as Steven Moffat created the character, it’s safe to assume she will return now that he is in charge of the whole shebang. He says knowingly. > [@TWDuke](#): > > Is it wrong of me to want Paul McGann to make an appearance? I was half hoping he would appear in a couple of shots when the Time Lords were talking about the Doctor’s role in the Time War, because at that point in the events it was the Eighth Doctor incarnation who had been behind it. It would have been quite a thrill to have slipped in such a sequence, and surprise the fans with it. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/167 "2010-01-08T23:16:02Z")
That would have been cool. (In the nerdy sense of the word.) And you beat me to the punch, but I’m posting anyway: [spoiler]Alex Kingston has been photographed on set and/or location with Matt Smith. That doesn’t guarantee she’s playing River Song again, but since the character was created by Steven Moffat, who is the new show runner, the odds are good. “Silence in the Library” never established that River had met the Doctor in that body. If their relationship was as intimate as was intimated, she could well have known that he might regenerate. Since she had sent a distress call, and he had apparently answered previous distress calls, it wouldn’t be hard for her to guess that the only male in the Library who didn’t arrive with her was, in fact, the Doctor.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/168 "2010-01-08T23:16:35Z")
Re: the Timelord lady. I’m pretty sure she’s Susan, the granddaughter. When Wilf asks who she was, the Doctor gives Donna a fairly lingering look before pulling out the lotto ticket (Timelords who are about to regenerate apparently CAN give you the winning numbers). Re: Rassilon. I think it is THE Rassilon, as the Doctor mentioned they broke the rules and ressurected an awful lot of dead old Timelords for the Time War. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/169 "2010-01-08T23:30:19Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I think that as Steven Moffat created the character, it’s safe to assume she will return now that he is in charge of the whole shebang. He says knowingly. Didn’t she say something like “you look so young!” If so, then if she shows up and has an adventure with the new kid, he can’t be the iteration she spends years with, since he looks even younger. Of course, she could have been referring to his mind. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/170 "2010-01-08T23:50:22Z")
I’m pretty sure the implication was that **River Song** knew the doctor in his tenth (Tennant) incarnation, and that that connection could well have happened between (in the doctors timeline) between _The Waters of Mars_ and _The End of Time_. He does claim to have done quite a lot (including possibly marrying Queen Elizabeth I, explaining her antipathy to him in _The Shakespeare Code_). After _Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead_ the Doctor starts clicking his fingers to open the TARDIS (something River Song claimed he could do) - at the beginning of _The End Of Time_, he is using a key fob - he has obviously moved past the finger-clicking and River Song. Si ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/171 "2010-01-09T00:12:24Z")
> [@MickNickMaggies](#): > > Re: Rassilon. I think it is THE Rassilon, as the Doctor mentioned they broke the rules and ressurected an awful lot of dead old Timelords for the Time War. I don’t think they’d have had to resurrect him. As seen in The Five Doctors, Rassilon was… _something_; I don’t know if you’d call it in stasis, or beyond time as we know it, or imprisoned, but almost certainly not dead. Certainly it’s not unthinkable that in Gallifrey’s greatest crisis he might return. And it’s long been hinted that however revered he might be for creating the means of limitless time travel, Rassilon was NOT a very nice person. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/172 "2010-01-09T00:16:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And it’s long been hinted that however revered he might be for creating the means of limitless time travel, Rassilon was NOT a very nice person. That’s just because they only show us the bad days. He really was pretty nice once he got to know you. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/173 "2010-01-09T01:25:04Z")
Rassilon’s character in the Five Doctors, while being dangerous to cross, or even dangerous to accept gifts from, was far different than the Rassilon in “The end of time,” although as previously mentioned, the time war could have changed his personality. Also, as a ghost, or hologram, or whatever he was, he seemed much more powerful than he was with flesh and blood. As a corpse or prisoner he seemed to be able to materialize all of the doctors Tardises, free the Master, and free the fourth Doctor from a time vortex with the power of his will. But then maybe being free of his body is what gave him all of those abilities and that’s why he longed to be free of it again. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/174 "2010-01-09T17:36:05Z")
Given the number of [del]magical[/del] technologically advanced innovations and artifacts associated with him, it’s possible that his so-called tomb was actually a vast power generator and transmitter under the control of his disembodied consciousness, or his embodied consciousness, or a computer simulation of his consciousness. Anyhoo, this complex may have been destroyed or irreparably damaged in the early days of the Last Great Time War. Or we may be giving continuity a lot more thought than most Doctor Who writers. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/175 "2010-01-09T18:54:04Z")
At any rate I wonder if he and the other Time Lords will be back. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/176 "2010-01-09T18:58:12Z")
Well, seeing The Master again is as certain as seeing a Dalek again, and since The Master & the time lords are in the same place… ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/177 "2010-01-09T19:01:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > and since The Master & the time lords are in the same place… We don’t know that. The Master was blasting Rassilon when the gate closed, but he (the Master) was on Earth the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/178 "2010-01-09T19:20:49Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > At any rate I wonder if he and the other Time Lords will be back. They could bring Omega back for another round. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/179 "2010-01-09T19:21:30Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > We don’t know that. The Master was blasting Rassilon when the gate closed, but he (the Master) was on Earth the whole time. I just rewatched that part. It sure looks to me like the Master walked into the white area and right up to Rassilon, finishing him off with his fourth, final blast. Then they were all gone together. As far as I can tell, the Master is time-locked at the end of the Time War right along with the others. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459/180 "2010-01-09T19:30:55Z")
There’s already Internet rumors that Moffat will bring the Master back and cast James Nesbitt. I’m almost certain this is nothing more than a rumor, but man, Nesbitt would definitely bring a different sort of edge to the character. And by that, I mean, he’d probably be scary as fuck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-spoilers/518459.md?page=10)