# Doctorates without degrees: when was the last one awarded? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052 "2007-02-13T19:00:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/1 "2007-02-13T19:00:51Z")
Doctorates are nominally awarded for advancing science in a particular discipline. In practice, to the layman, it seems you have to get a degree first. When was the last time a non-honorary doctorate was awarded to someone without a degree (BA / BSc / MA / etc)? I’ll also exclude medical doctors except for exceptional circumstances. How common is it? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/2 "2007-02-13T19:06:34Z")
I’m sure somebody will be along to show one sooner, but here is some in [December of 2006](http://www.oum.edu.my/v2/eoumtoday/2006/dec-issue30-2006/): > [@](#): > > Three academic/corporate figures were conferred the Honorary Doctorate Degrees; a prestigious award that is also an inaugural addition to this Third Convocation. ---
**Author:** ![Crescend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Crescend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crescend)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/3 "2007-02-13T19:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] I’m sure somebody will be along to show one sooner, but here is some in [December of 2006](http://www.oum.edu.my/v2/eoumtoday/2006/dec-issue30-2006/): [/QUOTE] Honorary doctorates aren’t “real” doctorates. I think what the OP means is the case of someone appearing before the faculty of a university in which they are not matriculated, placing before them some great and tangible contribution to the field, and receiving a “real” doctorate for that achievement. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/4 "2007-02-13T19:22:18Z")
I specifically excluded honorary doctorates in my OP. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/5 "2007-02-13T19:22:45Z")
I’d dispute the premise. Doctorates are awarded for fulfilling various requirements set by a university, usually (always?) involving writing a dissertation. Many fields have awards and honors for advancing the state of science, awards for which any particular degree is not required. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/6 "2007-02-13T19:24:51Z")
Ah, sorry, I thought you were specifically asking about Honorary degrees. I missed the non part of the honorary. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/7 "2007-02-13T20:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] I’d dispute the premise. [/QUOTE] Then by all means start another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/8 "2007-02-13T20:39:37Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Many fields have awards and honors for advancing the state of science, awards for which any particular degree is not required. [/QUOTE] Sure, but those awards aren’t doctorate degrees. What **Quartz** asked is, when was the last time that an academic doctoral degree was conferred on someone who didn’t have any prior university degree. I don’t know the answer to this, but I suspect that it has happened quite recently, and may even happen again in the future. It’s true that having some sort of degree is usually a requirement to be accepted into a doctoral program, but I can see a university accepting a student who doesn’t have any formal degree, but has equivalent experience. For example, this student might have done three years out of a four-year undergraduate program, and then worked for ten years as a scientific researcher in the private sector. He or she doesn’t actually have a degree, but he or she is certainly ready to start a doctoral program, and will probably be able to complete it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/9 "2007-02-13T21:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=severus] For example, this student might have done three years out of a four-year undergraduate program, and then worked for ten years as a scientific researcher in the private sector. He or she doesn’t actually have a degree, but he or she is certainly ready to start a doctoral program, and will probably be able to complete it. [/QUOTE] I think that you’re right. I also think that they would probably be awarded a BS degree one year or so into the PhD program. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/10 "2007-02-13T21:38:04Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] I think that you’re right. I also think that they would probably be awarded a BS degree one year or so into the PhD program. [/QUOTE] It guess it depends. Around here, you can be admitted in a master’s or doctorate program in discipline A even if you don’t have a bachelor’s in this exact discipline, but you usually have to do a qualifying year (say, a year of advanced courses in discipline A) before actually starting. But you aren’t awarded a bachelor’s in A after doing so. This isn’t exactly the same, but I guess it would depend on the particular university. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/11 "2007-02-13T21:52:16Z")
I think the OP requires a slight re-wording in order to make it clear – > [@](#): > > … In practice, to the layman, it seems you have to get a [**bachelor’s**] degree first. > > When was the last time a non-honorary doctorate was awarded to someone [**who doesn’t already have a lower academic**] degree (BA / BSc / MA / etc)? > [@](#): > > I’ll also exclude medical doctors except for exceptional circumstances. Why? I think all U.S. medical schools require those seeking admission to already hold a bachelor’s degree. And in those countries (such as the U.K. and India) that don’t require a previous degree, the medical degree that’s awarded is a bachelor’s degree (for example, M.B.B.S.), not an M.D. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/12 "2007-02-13T22:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that you’re right. I also think that they would probably be awarded a BS degree one year or so into the PhD program. Only if someone specifically pushed through the paperwork for it. And academes are about as fond of paperwork as anyone else, so probably nobody would bother with it. It’s possible, and in some cases routine, to skip over the master’s degree on the way to the doctorate, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to also skip over the bachelor’s. You would, as noted, need some sort of special exemption to be allowed into the program without a bachelor’s, but that kind of thing can be done. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/13 "2007-02-13T23:08:01Z")
Nowadays, almost all doctoral programs require applicants for admission to have completed at least an undergraduate degree. As other posters have noted, however, exceptions happen. For example, noted [primate researcher Jane Goodall](http://www.janegoodall.org/jane/cv.asp) earned her doctorate from Cambridge University in the 1960’s with no previous college education: > [@](#): > > Curriculum Vitae > Jane Goodall, Ph.D., DBE […] > > 1950 School Certificate ( London) with Matriculation Exemption > > 1952 Higher Certificate ( London) > > 1962 Entered Cambridge University, England, as Ph.D. candidate in Ethology under Professor Robert Hinde > > Ph.D. in Ethology, Cambridge University, England I don’t know any stats about how often this happens nowadays, though, nor how recently it’s been done. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/14 "2007-02-13T23:09:29Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] And in those countries (such as the U.K. and India) that don’t require a previous degree, the medical degree that’s awarded is a bachelor’s degree (for example, M.B.B.S.), not an M.D. [/QUOTE] As I’ve said [post=8244231]here[/post], it’s possible in Quebec to be admitted to medical school straight out of cégep, and the degree awarded is a M.D. So I understand why **Quartz** specifically excluded it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/15 "2007-02-14T01:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Then by all means start another thread. [/QUOTE] The premise that I was disputing was that degrees are given for advancing scientific knowledge. If a university wished to admit someone to a PhD program who did not have a degree, they could, and that person could fulfill all the requirements for a PhD and get one. The two closest cases I know of are Ed Fredkin, who was a professor at MIT without a PhD, or even bachelor’s degree, and a friend of mine who went to MIT, and eventually got a PhD, without officially getting a high school diploma. I think that for the most part someone with as much credibility in the field wouldn’t want to bother spending years getting a PhD, since it wouldn’t buy him or her anything. But there is no reason it isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/16 "2007-02-14T03:10:34Z")
The paleontologist John R. Horner is normally referred to as Dr. Horner, even though he never went through a formal Ph.D. program or even got an undergraduate degree. His doctorate is an honorary doctorate, but an honorary Doctorate of Science in 1986, not the usual honorary doc that people get. He holds a position one would normally need a doctorate for, and he has the knowledge, credentials, and research cred of anybody in his field. I’d put him in the OP’s category. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/17 "2007-02-14T03:59:18Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > I’d put him in the OP’s category. Why? The OP is specifically (although admittedly not very clearly) asking about **holders of earned, non-honorary, doctorates who never received a bachelor’s degree prior to earning their doctorates**. Your Dr. Horner is simply a researcher with **no** formal academic credentials who has nonetheless made sufficiently important contributions to his field to attain an important position and to be recognized with an honorary degree. Good for him, but that’s not what this thread is about. > [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > His doctorate is an honorary doctorate, but an honorary Doctorate of Science in 1986, not the usual honorary doc that people get. Huh? There is nothing particularly “unusual” about an honorary Doctorate of Science (D.Sc.). The different types of [doctoral degrees _honoris causa_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_degree) (i.e., honorary ones) include D.Sc., D.Litt., and many others. In fact, AFAIK the D.Sc. is **more** likely to be awarded as an honorary degree than as an earned degree. Students who complete doctoral programs in scientific fields generally receive the standard Ph.D. degree, not a D.Sc. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/18 "2007-02-14T09:08:00Z")
There seem to be two different understandings of what the OP meant, and I’m not at all sure which is correct. One, expressed by **Kimstu** , is that the OP is asking about people who have been admitted to and completed a doctoral program at a university without having previously received any lower degree. The other, expressed by **Crescend** , is that the OP is asking about people who have received an earned doctorate without having matriculated in a doctoral program, and also without having completed a lower degree. The former case is not that rare, and examples have been given. I’ve never heard of the latter, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it has happened. It may be more common for so-called higher doctorates in the UK. Incidentally, I once knew an MD who had been accepted to medical school after his Junior year in college (on the assumption that he would graduate) and who then dropped out rather than completing his bachelor’s degree. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/19 "2007-02-14T09:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Nowadays, almost all doctoral programs require applicants for admission to have completed at least an undergraduate degree. As other posters have noted, however, exceptions happen. For example, noted [primate researcher Jane Goodall](http://www.janegoodall.org/jane/cv.asp) earned her doctorate from Cambridge University in the 1960’s with no previous college education: I don’t know any stats about how often this happens nowadays, though, nor how recently it’s been done. [/QUOTE] [From my former department](http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/subjectareas/music/postgraduatestudy/MPhilMusicology/), for the MPhil (the normal initial registration, which then converts to the PhD course after one year): _“First-class or upper second-class honours degree in Music (or with Music as a substantial component of the course) at an approved university. Others may be admitted in exceptional circumstances.”_ I’m pretty sure one or two of my peers didn’t have the normal requirements, particularly those on the composition course, a field where it’s certainly possible to demonstrate experience and competence through other means. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052/20 "2007-02-14T09:34:33Z")
A couple of examples from my _alma mater_ (with my emphases): **Economics Dept.** > [@](#): > > All [PhD] applicants who have neither a first degree nor a masters degree from a UK institution must submit the results of a recent Graduate Record Examination (GRE) General Test. The Faculty will not normally consider admitting a student whose score registers below the 90th percentile in the quantitative section and below the 50th percentile in the analytical writing section of the test. The Faculty must receive the results of the GRE General Test by the due date for complete applications (see How and When to Apply). **Education Dept.** > [@](#): > > Graduate work in Cambridge is intense and very intellectually demanding and so the University has high academic entry requirements. You are **normally** expected to hold or to be about to achieve: > > a 2(i) honours degree from a UK university or equivalent professional qualification and experience i.e. Advanced Diploma in Education > an equivalent standard from an overseas university > a fluent command of the English Language > completion of any current training or education course > Applications are welcomed from newly qualified teachers who have a strong academic background and active support from the senior management of their school. Recent involvement in professional development activities is an advantage. > > **Candidates not possessing the specified academic qualifications but able to make a strong personal case based on professional experience, and those from allied professions, may be considered for exceptional entry**. Other departments require you to complete a Masters course if you do not meet the standard requirements. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctorates-without-degrees-when-was-the-last-one-awarded/392052.md?page=2)