# Doctors - a comment on breast cancer in this painting **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693 "2010-04-11T03:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/1 "2010-04-11T03:26:24Z")
In [this article](http://www.doctorsreview.com/history/reading-between-lines/) the doctor makes the statement that in [La Fornarina by Raphael](http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.abcgallery.com/R/raphael/raphael58.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.abcgallery.com/R/raphael/raphael58.html&usg=__Knj5BcI0GBRxG_oMAnRDfyEEgFg=&h=759&w=542&sz=24&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=-gKziUFUKJUhSM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLa%2BFornarina%2Braphael%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Ds%26tbs%3Disch:1) the model “almost certainly” is suffering from breast cancer. Well, her breasts look just fine to me! What about her breasts would suggest that she has cancer? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/2 "2010-04-11T03:34:52Z")
Well, she looks like she’s doing a self-exam… I got nothing. Unless on her left breast (the one her hand is touching), there appears to be the slightest shadow which could be construed as a lump–just near her middle finger. Eh, I still got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/3 "2010-04-11T03:38:59Z")
Oh, doctors are always saying crap like this for attention. There’s some doctor with a book out that says Lincoln was dying of cancer, and it was lucky for him that John Wilkes Booth shot him before his real misery started. Oh, and three of Lincoln’s sons died from cancer too. He can tell just by looking at the pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/4 "2010-04-11T15:12:53Z")
Not a doctor. It’s not the greatest resolution, so its hard to tell if this is the case, but if there are visible veins pointing towards the breast. The term “cancer” arose because the veins feeding the tumor were enlarged and visible and looked like Cancer, the crab. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/5 "2010-04-11T15:39:59Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Not a doctor. It’s not the greatest resolution, so its hard to tell if this is the case, but if there are visible veins pointing towards the breast. The term “cancer” arose because the veins feeding the tumor were enlarged and visible and looked like Cancer, the crab. Thank you - I didn’t know that about the veins. I did find this [higher resolution](http://m.denimal.free.fr/lenu/img/originaux/Raphael,%20Portrait%20of%20a%20Young%20Woman,%20La%20Fornarina%20%28detail%29,%201518%20-%201519,%20Oil%20on%20wood,%20Galleria%20Nazionale%20d%27Arte%20Antica,%20Rome,%20Italy.jpg) of her left breast. Don’t see any veins, but again, maybe I’m not looking for the right thing. (To my untrained eye - untrained at looking for signs of cancer, not at looking at the female breast\* 😉 - there seems to be a little lumpiness below the index finger. Could that be something?) \*I refer, of course, to life drawing sessions! ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/6 "2010-04-11T15:51:05Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Thank you - I didn’t know that about the veins. I did find this [higher resolution](http://m.denimal.free.fr/lenu/img/originaux/Raphael,%20Portrait%20of%20a%20Young%20Woman,%20La%20Fornarina%20%28detail%29,%201518%20-%201519,%20Oil%20on%20wood,%20Galleria%20Nazionale%20d%27Arte%20Antica,%20Rome,%20Italy.jpg) of her left breast. Don’t see any veins, but again, maybe I’m not looking for the right thing. (To my untrained eye - untrained at looking for signs of cancer, not at looking at the female breast\* 😉 - there seems to be a little lumpiness below the index finger. Could that be something?) > \*I refer, of course, to life drawing sessions! To me, it appears that part of the breast inferior and mainly lateral to her finger is concave/indented, based on the shadowing. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/7 "2010-04-11T15:53:36Z")
:smack: Assuming anyone is interested, upon further googling, I came across [this article from the Lancet](http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673602119970/fulltext?_eventId=login) with much higher res images of the breast. And yes, there is certainly something weird about that breast when seen in higher resolution. It looks like **Hello Again’s** suggestion about veins was on the right track. The article can be viewed for free, but you have to sign up first. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/8 "2010-04-11T15:54:07Z")
Well in that higher resolution that sure does _look like_ a fairly large mass in mid lateral left breast. “Almost certainly”? That seems a stretch. But if accurately painted certainly not the way that normal breast tissue would behave with an index finger pushing up on it. I’d say probably myself. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/9 "2010-04-11T16:00:27Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The term “cancer” arose because the veins feeding the tumor were enlarged and visible and looked like Cancer, the crab. That’s interesting, could I ask for a cite on that one? As I had always heard it was called cancer for crab due to the fact that the cancer when growing would pull down the skin (as it was a firm lodged mass connected to the tissue on the inside, but also attached to the outter skin too). So it was like the pincers of a crab “pulling in” the skin and dimpling the skin that gave rise to the name, and not the veins that gave rise to the name. But again, that’s only what I’d heard from people anecdotally and I’d love to see the cite for a better claim. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/10 "2010-04-11T16:03:57Z")
> [@D18](#): > > :smack: > > Assuming anyone is interested, upon further googling, I came across [this article from the Lancet](http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673602119970/fulltext?_eventId=login) with much higher res images of the breast. And yes, there is certainly something weird about that breast when seen in higher resolution. It looks like **Hello Again’s** suggestion about veins was on the right track. > > The article can be viewed for free, but you have to sign up first. Here’s what I was saying: > [@](#): > > Below this bulge, the breast has a wide retraction. The dimpling, proceeding from the axilla toward the index and middle fingers, follows the lower aspect of the mass. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/11 "2010-04-11T16:08:25Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > But again, that’s only what I’d heard from people anecdotally and I’d love to see the cite for a better claim. I don’t know how to reach back to Hippocrates to find an original quote, but one reads the same on various sites, such as: [http://www.springerlink.com/content/g55u535672k82467/](http://www.springerlink.com/content/g55u535672k82467/) ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-a-comment-on-breast-cancer-in-this-painting/535693/12 "2010-04-11T17:11:57Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Here’s what I was saying: Below this bulge, the breast has a wide retraction. The dimpling, proceeding from the axilla toward the index and middle fingers, follows the lower aspect of the mass. Ah yes. Apologies for overlooking your post.