# Doctors Who between Davison and Eccleston **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583 "2011-04-24T20:16:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/21 "2011-04-26T07:07:30Z")
> [@Jennmonkye](#): > > My favorite McCoy episode was “Delta and the Bannermen”…which for some reason, I just loved. Looking back, it probably wasn’t all that great, but at the time it first broadcast in the US, I raved about that one. I’ve never seen it, but I remember finding the premise kind of silly. What’s so great about winning a trip to somewhere when you have a big blue box that goes anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/22 "2011-04-27T21:01:09Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > But who are “the creators” and what are you taking their word about? > > The people who came up with the idea for “Doctor Who” are dead, and had no idea of Time Lords or Gallifrey or regeneration. The people who wrote the novels and the audio series didn’t think of their stories differently than the people writing tv episodes. > > Sure, when RTD or whoever wrote Doctor Who at the Proms he maybe didn’t think of it as writing a “real” Doctor Who story, but beyond that, who cares? And the little kids who were in the audience at the Proms will probably remember it as the most “real” Doctor Who story of their lives. Are you going to tell them it wasn’t “canon”? Should Moffat? On the contrary, if an actual episode were to feature the Doctor travelling to the Proms, I’d expect a subtle reference letting those kids know it “really” happened. Can you give me a cite that Time Lords and Gallifrey weren’t in the original concept? I’ll accept that regeneration may have been a later idea to bring in Patrick Troughton after William Hartnell, but I thought that the Doctor was a Time Lord from the first. ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/23 "2011-04-27T22:30:55Z")
I like Colin Baker and think he was a great Doctor. Unfortunately, he was sabotaged by poor stories and the single most awful costume of the history of the show. From his seasons I’d only really recommend **Vengeance on Varos**. **The Two Doctors** was also cool because it had Patrick Troughton and Jamie, but had some serious issues. It’s also the last _Doctor Who_ story written entirely by [Robert Holmes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Holmes_%28scriptwriter%29#Doctor_Who_scripts). (Holmes was one of the best _Doctor Who_ writers and one of my favorite TV writers, but **TTD** wasn’t his best effort.) I wouldn’t watch any other story featuring Colin Baker. If you’re really curious reading plot summaries on wikipedia would probably be a better idea. To me Colin Baker’s best efforts on _Doctor Who_ are all Big Finish audio plays. If you’re interested in those I’d recommend starting with **The Marian Conspiracy** , which introduced Evelyn, the best companion ever. I’d also recommend **The Holy Terror** (featuring [Frobisher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frobisher_%28Doctor_Who%29), the other best companion ever), **The One Doctor** (simply hilarious), **…ish** , **Jubilee** (kinda, sorta the inspiration for **Dalek** , the Ecclestone episode) and **Doctor Who and The Pirates** (it just maybe the best _DW_ story ever because it features pirates, Evelyn and a Gilbert and Sullivan inspired musical episode in which the Doctor sings "[I Am The Very Model Of A Gallifreyan Buccaneer"](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5d-cteMguQ).) Sylvester McCoy was also a very good Doctor IMO and I really liked the direction that the producers chose for his character, but the production values for some of his episodes were low enough to bother me and that’s saying a lot. To me the stand-outs were **The Hapiness Patrol** (as has already been stated in this thread many people hate this), **Remembrance of The Daleks** (the best Dalek story after **Genesis of the Daleks** ), **The Curse of Fenric** (as much a classic as **Remembrance** ) and **Survival** (the weakest of this bunch, but worth it as it was the show’s last story for years). **Ghost Light** is my favorite story by McCoy, but so many people hate it that I’m not comfortable making a recommendation. **The Greatest Show on Earth** and **Battlefield** could have been very good but they’re just too cheap looking and **Silver Nemesis** has the same plot as **Remembrance** , only it’s bad everywhere **Remembrance** was good. > [@Damfino](#): > > Can you give me a cite that Time Lords and Gallifrey weren’t in the original concept? I’ll accept that regeneration may have been a later idea to bring in Patrick Troughton after William Hartnell, but I thought that the Doctor was a Time Lord from the first. I’m sorry that I can’t give you a cite, but I too remember reading in more than one place that Gallifrey and the Time Lords were late additions to the show. _Doctor Who_ unlike a show like _Star Trek_ didn’t have a show bible and never was very much concerned with canon and continuity. Canon only became a concern in the 80s, much to the show’s detriment, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Kim\_o\_the\_Concrete\_Jungle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ee7513/32.png) [@Kim\_o\_the\_Concrete\_Jungle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kim_o_the_Concrete_Jungle)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/24 "2011-04-28T01:14:23Z")
The last few McCoy serials are worth watching, and Ace was one of the better companions. To my mind, the McCoy era was just starting to come good when they canceled the show, which was a bit unfortunate. But most of the Colin Baker and early Sylvester McCoy Dr Who’s were pretty wretched. Mel was one of the worst companions, and most of the sets looked like they were made from extruded plastic. Most of the Colin Baker era involved this overriding plot arc where the Doctor was on trial for genocide, and I lost interest in that long before the end. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/25 "2011-04-28T01:21:21Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Can you give me a cite that Time Lords and Gallifrey weren’t in the original concept? I’ll accept that regeneration may have been a later idea to bring in Patrick Troughton after William Hartnell, but I thought that the Doctor was a Time Lord from the first. The term “Time Lord” is first used in “The War Games” [The War Games - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Games) (A Troughton episode) - six years after the series started. The word “Gallifrey” is first used in “The Time Warrior” [The Time Warrior - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Warrior) (A Pertiwee episode), five years after that. It therefore seems very unlikely that the concept of Time Lords or Gallifrey was in anyone’s mind at the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/26 "2011-04-28T02:15:29Z")
The Doctor and Susan were established as aliens while she was still travelling with him, however. I believe The Sensorites was the first story that mentioned it - Susan apparently described Gallifrey (then unnamed) very similarly to how Ten described it in the revived series. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583/27 "2011-04-28T22:25:13Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > The Doctor and Susan were established as aliens while she was still travelling with him, however. I believe The Sensorites was the first story that mentioned it - Susan apparently described Gallifrey (then unnamed) very similarly to how Ten described it in the revived series. I didn’t know that. Interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctors-who-between-davison-and-eccleston/579583.md?page=1)