# Doe not being attracted to a certain race make one a racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471 "2005-11-23T20:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/1 "2005-11-23T20:27:26Z")
I was at work and went on a coffee run. One co-worker said she wanted her coffee black and I made the usual joke “like your men” and her nose crinkled in a most disapproving way. I thought she found the comment either distasteful or a cliche, but instead it was simply because she didn’t like black folks. When I say “like,” I don’t mean like - she has numerous black friends from what I’ve seen, both male and female - I mean _like_… Simply put, she is apparently not attracted to black men. Is this a form of racism, albeit a fairly benign one? Or is this no different than saying “I like blondes but I’m not attracted to redheads.” Or not wanting to date anyone shorter than you are. Or any other way that we narrow the list down on whom we want to date based on physical appearances. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/2 "2005-11-23T20:31:19Z")
No different from blondes vs redheads, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/3 "2005-11-23T20:32:51Z")
Racist? No - so long as she doesn’t have a problem with _other_ white people dating black people. Shallow? Probably. Though it’s a tough call, because I’m generally not willing to knock other people for their sexual preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/4 "2005-11-23T20:35:34Z")
Somewhat, but most white/black/brown/asian people are like that. In the book freakonomics the author covered the fact that even though most people pick ‘race doesn’t matter’ when asked about it on online dating sites about 90% of initiations on [match.com](http://match.com) are within a person’s own racial group. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/5 "2005-11-23T20:42:15Z")
Don’t see how it could be racist. You are attracted to what you are attracted to be it black, white, large/small breasts, fat/skinny, whatever. Plus I would be willing to bet that as a general rule she may not, but that doesn’t mean she never has or will be attracted to a black fellow. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/6 "2005-11-23T21:05:44Z")
“Racism” means different things to different people, and I think that until we agree upon a clear definition, then this is a vague debate. If, for example, we use [dictionary.reference.com](http://dictionary.reference.com)’s first definition of “racism”, namely: > [@](#): > > The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. then I don’t this is racism. Attraction is not necessarily based on the object’s human character, ability, or superiority. If we use the same source’s second definition: > [@](#): > > Discrimination or prejudice based on race. then this could be construed as racism. If you’re attracted to a subset of the members of Race A but not attracted to any members of Race B, then your tastes appear to be **discriminating** based on race. I still see yet another issue, which is that the term “racism” has very negative connotations, and it is indeed an insult to call someone a racist. Racism is largely perceived to be morall reprehensible. _However_, using the strict definitions of racism above, I think that only a proper subset of racist behaviors are actually morally reprehensible, and being attracted only to one’s own race does not belong to this subset. While much racist behavior can be overcome through intelligence and reasoning, I perceive attraction as being largely uncontrollable, and thus no one’s fault. So to sum up: Is it racist? Depends on your definition of “racism”. If you think that arriving at an optimal (whatever that means) definition of “racism” is an interesting and worthy task, then have at it. Is it morally reprehensible? No. I contend that attraction is beyond one’s control. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/7 "2005-11-23T21:20:43Z")
Why do you think she was offended by the thought of dating a black guy? Couldn’t she have been offended or a little put-off by the joke itself, what she might have seen as inappropriate attention to her romantic / sexual preferences? That’s not my opinion of what you were trying to say, but I think that it could be construed that way… ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/8 "2005-11-23T21:24:38Z")
FTR, I prefer my coffee strong, rich and black. And hot. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/9 "2005-11-23T21:29:26Z")
I like my Coffee how I like my women: Tied up in a burlap sack and dragged through the Andes behind a donkey. (credit Wayne’s World (I think)) As to the OP, everyone has physical preferences when it comes to members of the opposite sex, and if those preferences are racial traits, I don’t see that as making you a racist. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/10 "2005-11-23T21:35:55Z")
I wonder how many people would see an “attractive” person of any given “race,” but not even want to consider getting to know that person romantically because of his/her “race.” (Both being single, etc.) Race is a dubious term anyway, but a lot of it could be about culture. Or maybe not so much racism per se but pre-conceived notions about other groups. Attraction is so nebulous anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/11 "2005-11-23T21:36:29Z")
I like my coffee the way I like my men: smooth, sweet, strong, and waking me up in the morning. …This thread is gonna get hijacked to the moon and back now, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/12 "2005-11-23T21:54:30Z")
At the other extreme, it seems to me plainly racist to hear the oft-spoken, “I only date asian/somali/jewish/western-samoan men.” (Or women). Oddly enough the exception to the above is when the speaker is not of the named ethnicity. Then it’s kinky. Latte/Cappucino in the morning, espresso after midday man myself. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/13 "2005-11-23T22:06:37Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > I like my coffee the way I like my men: smooth, sweet, strong, and waking me up in the morning. > …This thread is gonna get hijacked to the moon and back now, isn’t it? Plus it’s been done already: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321677](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321677) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/14 "2005-11-23T22:22:00Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > I like my Coffee how I like my women: Tied up in a burlap sack and dragged through the Andes behind a donkey. > > (credit Wayne’s World (I think)) Patton Oswalt said, IIRC, “tied up in a sack and thrown on the back of a donkey by Juan Valdez”. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/15 "2005-11-23T23:01:23Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Patton Oswalt said, IIRC, “tied up in a sack and thrown on the back of a donkey by Juan Valdez”. Think your right. I was confusing it with this exchange from W’sW: > [@SNL](#): > > Hillary algar: How do you like your coffee? > > Wayne: I like my coffee like I like my women. > > Hillary algar: Really? How’s that? > > Wayne: Milk and two sugars. > > Hillary algar: What does that mean? > > Wayne: I don’t know. Appologies for further hijacking. I shall make no more coffee=woman jokes in this thread (unless I remember a real funny one) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/16 "2005-11-23T23:04:53Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > Why do you think she was offended by the thought of dating a black guy? Couldn’t she have been offended or a little put-off by the joke itself, what she might have seen as inappropriate attention to her romantic / sexual preferences? That’s not my opinion of what you were trying to say, but I think that it could be construed that way… That was my thought-she probably just found your comments tasteless. That being said, if the people you have been _attracted to physically_ all tend to fall within the same race, I don’t think it’s something you can help. It isn’t that you’re excluding other races, just that, for whatever reason, you weren’t attracted to them. Physical attraction isn’t something you can control, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/17 "2005-11-23T23:21:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That was my thought-she probably just found your comments tasteless. You’d be incorrect. She was pretty clear that she was not attracted to black people even though she had zero problem with people of any and all races in every other capacity. Also, she is hardly the first person to express these kinds of thoughts. [QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/18 "2005-11-23T23:48:47Z")
> [@John\_Stamos'\_Left\_Ear](#): > > You’d be incorrect. She was pretty clear that she was not attracted to black people even though she had zero problem with people of any and all races in every other capacity. Also, she is hardly the first person to express these kinds of thoughts. So what’d she say exactly? Bit easier to analyse that than your statement that she was offended, right? ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/19 "2005-11-23T23:49:44Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Race is a dubious term anyway, but a lot of it could be about culture. Or maybe not so much racism per se but pre-conceived notions about other groups. Attraction is so nebulous anyway. How do you define racism in such a way that preconceived notions about other groups is not necessarily an instance of it? I’m not saying I disagree; I’m just curious how you arrived at that. > [@Sevastopol](#): > > At the other extreme, it seems to me plainly racist to hear the oft-spoken, “I only date asian/somali/jewish/western-samoan men.” (Or women). How do you define racism in such a way that it includes the practice/desire of only dating members of one ethnicity? ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471/20 "2005-11-23T23:51:53Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > At the other extreme, it seems to me plainly racist to hear the oft-spoken, “I only date asian/somali/jewish/western-samoan men.” (Or women). > > Oddly enough the exception to the above is when the speaker is not of the named ethnicity. Then it’s kinky. > > Latte/Cappucino in the morning, espresso after midday man myself. I’d ask you don’t take this the wrong way, but I really don’t care. There are many cultural/experiential items that make the joining of two people together easier or harder. The things you list, if you are eventually looking for marriage, could make that joining easier, if the two involved are from the same ethnic group. I am Jewish. I would date only Jewish women if I was looking for a wife. Happily, I have one and it works out pretty well. Does that mean I think that others are inferior? Hell no, and many of the others are attractive too. But, if I see dating as a means to find someone to spend my life with, and I want that someone to share the same basic beliefs I have, I am OK with that. For you to call me a racist because of that is prejudicial. Care to explain further? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doe-not-being-attracted-to-a-certain-race-make-one-a-racist/332471.md?page=2)