# Does 120/60 meant 60 watts is the limit, or the recommendation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 18, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563 "2021-11-18T15:23:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/21 "2021-11-18T19:46:35Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Incandescent bulbs have a lifetime that varies approximately as the _TWELFTH_ power of the voltage or current. Running it only a little over severely shortens the lifetime, while running it lower can dramatically increase the life. How would you do this? The wattage that the bulb picks up is based on the design of the bulb itself. Assuming that you are using normal house current, anyway. I suppose if you are running off a higher voltage power supply, then you may be able to “overclock” your lightbulb. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/22 "2021-11-18T20:48:14Z")
House voltage varies, and can be adjusted by the utility. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/23 "2021-11-18T21:32:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How would you do this? The wattage that the bulb picks up is based on the design of the bulb itself. You used to be able to get Rough Service/Rural/Farm Use bulbs which were rated at 130V and as a result burned a bit dimmer but lasted much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/24 "2021-11-18T21:37:57Z")
That sounds like the ones that were sold for use in garage door openers. (I assumed those were designed to handle the vibrations from the garage door.) ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/25 "2021-11-18T21:54:10Z")
Looks like you can still buy them. If you look at the box, it runs for 5400 hours @ 89 W on 120V. [https://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-130-Volt-Light-Bulb/22846088](https://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-130-Volt-Light-Bulb/22846088) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/26 "2021-11-18T22:12:43Z")
Like I said, special order. (For light bulbs, anything beyond “picking them up off the shelf while you’re shopping in the store” is special order. If you’re one of those “I buy everything from Amazon” folks, it’s not special but it’s still order.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/27 "2021-11-19T15:20:05Z")
Is it possible that the label is actually referring to total wattage for the fixture and wattage for each bulb? Like, a two-bulb fixture intended for use with two 60-W bulbs (120 W total)? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/28 "2021-11-21T14:33:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > issue. If so that doesn’t make sense given that frequency doesn’t impact on the fixture in any way. > [@beowulff](#): > > Fixtures that are designed for LEDs won’t have replaceable lamps - they won’t need them, since LEDs (if made well) have a nearly unlimited life. Optimistic I think. The market is not moving towards LED lamps that are made for sufficient longevity to be a fixture. LEDs requires electronics. It’s unusual to have fixtures that contain electronics. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/29 "2021-11-21T14:44:11Z")
Umm… What jail cell have you been confined in? LED fixtures with non-replaceable lamps are EVERYWHERE. We use them as “pot lights” in our new addition, and as a surface-mount fixture in our bathroom. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/30 "2021-11-21T14:47:50Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I doubt it’s a problem for the fixture – a 4 or 6 watt LED is going to generate much, much less heat than a 60 watt bulb. Not necessarily. Check this out: [https://www.edn.com/led-bulbs-can-bring-heat/](https://www.edn.com/led-bulbs-can-bring-heat/) The LED bulb in the left photo is 15 W, and puts out the same amount of light as a 100 W incandescent bulb. The bulb on the right is an actual 100 W incandescent bulb. The temperature of the glass envelope near the base of the LED bulb is 160 °F. The temperature of the envelope near the base of the incandescent bulb is 132 °F. Also check out the plot below the photo. So if the _base_ temperature is of most importance, then an LED bulb might be more dangerous than an incandescent bulb, all else being equal. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/31 "2021-11-21T16:39:24Z")
Interesting. Thanks! I guess lots of the heat from incandescents radiates out from the bulb. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/32 "2021-11-21T17:05:50Z")
It’s generally only dangerous to the “bulb” itself. High temperature kills electronics. Well-made LED A19 base lamps, ones that use either high-temperature electrolytic (or no electrolytics at all) can have lifespans in the 50,000 hour + range. I have a Cree 13W lamp that has been on 24/7 since July of 2013 - over 75,000 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/33 "2021-11-21T17:48:31Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It’s generally only dangerous to the “bulb” itself. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have always assumed the maximum wattage rating for a ceiling fan’s light bulb socket (e.g. 60 W) is because the socket can withstand only so much heat. If that’s true, then there may be cases where a 60 W incandescent bulb is fine, but a lower-wattage LED bulb that puts out the same amount of light might exceed the socket’s max temperature rating. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/34 "2021-11-21T17:56:34Z")
That’s true, but there’s no way that an LED base is going to get at hot as an incandescent that is burned base-up. Remember, the heating element in an Easy-Bake oven was a 60W lamp. If burned base-up, most of that heat is going to end up at the base (being generous, maybe 50% gets radiated away). An LED of equivalent brightness is 13W. Even if 100% of that ends up as heat at the base, it’s still less than 50% of the incandescent. I’m sure there is a case where someone but some enormous LED in a tiny fixture, and it caused overheating, but the general case is, that the electronics would fail first, before the fixture melted or burned. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/35 "2021-11-21T23:38:11Z")
So you need an electrician to replace them? Not sure I’d want that. LED’s aren’t as reliable in practice as they can be in theory. It’s certainly _possible_ to run them so they will last near indefinitely, but that often isn’t how they are. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563/36 "2021-11-22T00:00:49Z")
Unless you know what you are doing, yes. The fixtures are not repairable. Some of the “can” lights have external power supplies that can be replaced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-120-60-meant-60-watts-is-the-limit-or-the-recommendation/954563.md?page=1)