# Does a Camaro w/ Auto Trans = a Sports Car? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609 "2014-05-16T21:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/62 "2014-05-19T00:27:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Feh. Boulevardiers the lot of them. Doesn’t make me want one any less. Just not sports cars. Fine GTs. Comfortable. Long legs, especially the 280s. > > Tried out a big Healy ('65 3000) once. Made my left knee hurt before I even drove it. Would have to drive from Seattle to Chicago and realized I’d be crippled before I got out of Washington State and would lose the leg by South Dakota. THAT was a sports car! Feh. Knee-destroying clutches were an affectation of Brits who wanted to be reminded of their good old days as a public school toady. Or their good times with Miss Leatherstrap. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/63 "2014-05-19T02:23:06Z")
Toyota did have a sort of hybrid ignition system that used points instead of optical or magnetic switching, but was otherwise electronic (the points did not directly switch current to the coil, rather to an amplifier that controlled the coil). I have no reason to doubt that this system could have been used in conjunction with fuel injection. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/64 "2014-05-19T03:04:22Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Toyota did have a sort of hybrid ignition system that used points instead of optical or magnetic switching, but was otherwise electronic (the points did not directly switch current to the coil, rather to an amplifier that controlled the coil). I have no reason to doubt that this system could have been used in conjunction with fuel injection. They did, but I’m fairly sure the last year for it was 1981. That’s why I was thinking a 1st gen '79-81 Supra since they were still definitely using their oddball semi-electronic points system on their run-of-the-mill cars although I’m not sure if they were with the EFI’ed Supras. An '85 with a 22RE would have definitely been a fully transistorized system, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/65 "2014-05-19T04:38:51Z")
I worked on a number of mid 80s 22RE vehicles and to the best of my recollection they were fully electronic at that time. The hybrid system you mentioned I think was used on 2TC motors among others. I seem to recall the last holdout with points was Subaru. I think they had a hybrid system till 79 or 80. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/66 "2014-05-19T12:31:47Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > How about: a sports car is one that makes people smile and wave when you drive by in it. > > EVERYONE notices a sports car. So maybe it _is_ like porn, or sf. I don’t expect we’ll ever hash out the true definition of a “sports car”, but what you and others have descibed thus far sounds to me more like a [roadster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster_(automobile)). How about this definition…: A sporty car (or roadster) is small, light, engineered for good all around driving characteristics and when driven hard will give you miles of thrills. A sports car is small, relatively light, engineered for superior performance characteristics and when driven hard will try to kill you. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/67 "2014-05-19T13:29:02Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I seem to recall the last holdout with points was Subaru. I think they had a hybrid system till 79 or 80. Didn’t they also use something other than catalytic converters until then? Some kind of afterburn system? They were the last major model to go to cats, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/68 "2014-05-19T13:33:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t expect we’ll ever hash out the true definition of a “sports car”, but what you and others have descibed thus far sounds to me more like a [roadster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster_(automobile)). > > How about this definition…: > > A sporty car (or roadster) is small, light, engineered for good all around driving characteristics and when driven hard will give you miles of thrills. > > A sports car is small, relatively light, engineered for superior performance characteristics and when driven hard will try to kill you. Being a convertible is not essential - I grew up with both DHC and FHC MGs (drop-head coupe = removable hardtop; fixed-head coupe = solid hardtop) which were indisputably sports cars. So while most if not all roadsters might be sports cars, the lack of a top does not make a car a sports car. A bit tangential, but try this: if any part of the interior except the seats is padded, it’s not a sports car. Expanded definition: if the builder expends weight on unnecessary creature comforts like padded doors and dashes, power anything, or maintenance-reducing options, it’s not a sports car. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/69 "2014-05-19T13:47:17Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A bit tangential, but try this: if any part of the interior except the seats is padded, it’s not a sports car. Expanded definition: if the builder expends weight on unnecessary creature comforts like padded doors and dashes, power anything, or maintenance-reducing options, it’s not a sports car. By that definition, virtually no modern day supercar is a sports car. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/70 "2014-05-19T13:53:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Some insist on manual transmissions. I’m wondering why some are clinging hopelessly to James Dean era cars. Its more skill, more control, and more fun! Anyone can learn to drive a stick if they are willing to actually put in some effort and practice. The rest stamp their right foot, call it “talent”, and wonder why we are laughing at them. Correction: The “Screaming Chicken” was never painted on the hood of the Camaro. That was painted on the hood of the Firebird as I recall. \*\*…or as GM recalls… \*\* 😛 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/71 "2014-05-19T14:10:23Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Its more skill, more control, and more fun! Anyone can learn to drive a stick if they are willing to actually put in some effort and practice. The rest stamp their right foot, call it “talent”, and wonder why we are laughing at them. Oh, don’t get me wrong. I have an abiding love for driving a manual. I’ve owned and driven a stick exclusively since 91. Still own one. Still enjoy rowing my own gears. But I’ve also got a car with paddle shifters and I cannot say that the joy of driving that car is diminished because it’s not a manual. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/72 "2014-05-19T16:36:22Z")
I love driving manual cars, and I own one. Last year, I finally had a chance to drive a paddle shifter. I was really looking forward to it, and thought it’d be interesting and fun. For some reason, I hated it. I tried it for a while, then just shoved it into full automatic mode, and that was actually a nicer drive. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/73 "2014-05-19T16:42:50Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A bit tangential, but try this: if any part of the interior except the seats is padded, it’s not a sports car. Expanded definition: if the builder expends weight on unnecessary creature comforts like padded doors and dashes, power anything, or maintenance-reducing options, it’s not a sports car. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > By that definition, virtually no modern day supercar is a sports car. Okay how about this: the interior and exterior colors must match a professional or collegiate athletic team, otherwise its not a sports car. Hey, its about as convincing as AB’s definition. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/74 "2014-05-19T16:49:05Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t think a Camaro with a \*manual \*transmission is a sports car. Nor is a Mustang, Barra/Cuda, Challenger, AMX or any other muscle/pony car. > > “Sporty,” in a spats-and-monocle way, maybe. Sports car, no. I’m not even sure I’d consider my Cobra a sports car, although it’s based on one. +1, unless you mean the AC/Shelby/Ford Cobra (in which case I’m jealous.) ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/75 "2014-05-19T16:51:40Z")
Sports car requirements: Rear wheel drive Manual transmission Two-seater Designed from the ground up to be lightweight and maneuverable (not built off a passenger car’s platform) Some tricky cases: Porsche 911 – not a sports car. Boxster and Cayman are sports cars, the 911 is larger and has a backseat so it is a slight compromise. Nissan Z car – the 70’s (240Z) and 80’s car (280/300ZX) qualifies, because when they gave it a backseat, they modified the platform to make a 2+2. The 2-seater model was still a pure sports car. But in the 90’s the car got larger – a 2+2 version was available on the same platform, it was no longer a car focused on light weight, so the 90’s Z was more of a grand touring car than a sports car. The 2000’s version of the Z (370Z) returned more to its roots, only has 2 seats, and is a true sports car again. Mazda RX-7 / RX-8: RX-8 is not a sports car, it has 4 doors and a backseat. All RX-7’s qualify. Exotics: Most exotic cars qualify, but they are kinda beyond caring if they get classified as “sports car” or not. If it doesn’t have a stick and a clutch, it’s out, in my book. Modern/recent cars that qualify: Mazda Miata, Honda S2000, Toyota MR-S, Nissan 370Z, Corvette, BMW Z4, Porsche Boxster/Cayman, Jaguar F-series, Mercedes SLK and SLS ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/76 "2014-05-19T16:56:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > By that definition, virtually no modern day supercar is a sports car. Exactly. Not even the absolutely gorgeous LP400 up for auction next week, my absolute all-time cry-myself-to-sleep dream car. (Bonham’s Greenwich has it, for the interested. $550-600k.) > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Okay how about this: the interior and exterior colors must match a professional or collegiate athletic team, otherwise its not a sports car. > > Hey, its about as convincing as AB’s definition. No, no, no. The colors must match those of an athletic team _from the manufacturer’s country_. None of this Raider Nation shit on a Jag. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > +1, unless you mean the AC/Shelby/Ford Cobra (in which case I’m jealous.) I do, and sorry 'bout that, Chief. I’d only arm-wrassle weakly to defend my position that it’s not a sports car, although the two prior AC models and the loose design model (Ferrari 155MM Barcheta) certainly were. By the time you amp it up with 400+ HP and tires wider than some MGs, I’d call it an FIA sports racer over a sports car. (Fun fact: the bump in the 289 Cobra’s trunk was to accommodate the regulation FIA suitcase, said accommodation a requirement for that racing class. The test suitcase swam in the 427’s trunk, making no need for the bump or kick you see on some replicas.) When the rules specify that a suitcase of a certain size has to fit, all of the above argument looks positively rational. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/77 "2014-05-19T17:26:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Exactly. Not even the absolutely gorgeous LP400 up for auction next week, my absolute all-time cry-myself-to-sleep dream car. (Bonham’s Greenwich has it, for the interested. $550-600k.) **Barbarian**! **Amateur** , my arse! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/78 "2014-05-19T17:46:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I don’t think you can have a 4-door sports car (or a hatchback, for that matter). My 370Z (hatchback) begs to differ. 😉 > [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > The 2000’s version of the Z (370Z) returned more to its roots, only has 2 seats, and is a true sports car again. Exactly! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/79 "2014-05-19T19:08:03Z")
Not many cars I’d regard as a “sports car” pork out at 3300 pounds. Must be all the handling they put in it. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/80 "2014-05-19T19:44:14Z")
I’m ok with the Z being one of “not many.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609/81 "2014-05-19T20:12:20Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not many cars I’d regard as a “sports car” pork out at 3300 pounds. Must be all the handling they put in it. Yeah, and Heidi Klum is not a supermodel because she weighs more than Kate Moss. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-camaro-w-auto-trans-a-sports-car/688609.md?page=5)