But that’s legal advice, is it not? I’m not trying to be difficult, but I can’t see the cutoff point. If my neighbor says that he wants to shoot his wife in the face when she gets home from work, if I tell him that he shouldn’t do that because he will go to jail…that’s also legal advice.
Does having a little bit of knowledge mean that we have to shut up at all times? Even on the internet? Or only when it is an actual issue? Had the OP said that this was all hypothetical, could we pretend and continue the fiction?
It’s not that giving advice violates the ethical rules (after all, that fundamentally is what attorneys do) … the danger is: Have you created an attorney-client relationship by giving such specific advice that it becomes the case that you are no longer setting forth general principles of contract law (with the unspoken premise: “Draw your own conclusions—for which you alone are responsible”) and crossed into endorsing particularized plans of action?
There are some ways to militate against such a finding: explicitly saying “By telling you this, we’re not attorney and client or anything like that,” “This is just general information only and not tailored to your specific facts and circumstances for which you are responsible for obtaining your own legal counsel,” and/or “I am answering this question solely for the limited purpose of this particular question only and I make no commitments as to guaranteeing its accuracy or answering any future questions.”
BTW: These are some general remarks on legal ethics that have occurred to me and are not meant to create an attorney-client representation nor am I any sort of legal ethics expert, although I did get a kick-ass score on the MPRE.
In some sense, yes. But really, it’s not legal advice regarding a contract; it’s common sense.
Sure, but at the very least you send them a letter saying you want out and you’re canceling payment, or something. The point is that the gym is under no obligation at all to waive payment for the period of time before they are notified that you are opting out. The might not be obligated to waive payment after the fact, either, depending on the terms of the contract, but that’s a separate issue.
probably. which is why i contacted the sales manager in writing first.
after calling, the managers seem to have an aversion to dealing with disgruntled customers (he refused to talk to me. the underling answered, i explained the situation and asked to speak to a manager, he said “hang on,” and the manager was clearly next to him because i overheard him repeat what i said and say i wanted to speak to him (apparently named Mark). mark says "uh. tell him i’m…i’m not here.)
that actually just happened.
i pushed a little more, nicely, and explained how slighted i felt because come on–you changed your terms of service immediately. after that (and after realizing i’m not belligerent but am in fact just trying to get this taken care of, he was sympathetic, admitted it was on them and they’d fix it if i went through more official channels. which i’m going to get right on.
so.
hopefully, a painless resolution.
as for giving legal advice on the internet, i guess i fail to see the sticky wicket in it.
it is to be taken with a grain of salt, same as all advice on the net? how is it different than someone on a home improvement forum asking how to fix a leaky toilet or some other potentially liable issue?
this is a totally new direction for this thread, but i guess i don’t quite understand. internet forums are not really binding legal resolutions, are they?
why is it ok to give information how to change registry keys in the bowels of your computer on a comp forum (something that can really fuck things up for someone who takes either the wrong advice, follows directions poorly or is just an idiot) vs any qualified or unqualified legal advice? it’s not like i asked for credentials from real-life lawyers who are on here or anything of that sort.
this is the equivalent of asking which way is east. it’s my discretion to believe it and walk that way, or proceed with caution, or just do what i was going to do regardless.
even if you say “hey i’m a lawyer for real and i know exactly what to do, and this is what it is…” on what grounds do i completely buy into that? if it’s bad advice and i ruin my life over it, i’d still be the one voluntarily taking unconfirmed over-the-internet advice.
if i ask a question on the net, and you answer, i’m your “client?” how would i even confirm you’re an attorney? do i check the bar association for that character from Full House who, apparently (magically) became real and got a law degree?
if someone asks how to fix a leaky pipe on the Lowe’s forum and you answer, are you then their plumber?
No, you stopped paying your bill first, according to your second post. You contacted them in writing after they started asking why you weren’t paying your bill.
Plumbers fix things. They don’t tell you how to fix things yourself. Lawyers give legal advice, as well as advocating.
More importantly, plumbers don’t have a selective, self-regulating professional association which speaks with the force of law that kicks you in the nuts if you break its rules.
no, it started all at the same time. written contact was made at the same time the first bill didn’t auto-withdraw. i think it was the next week i got a call and then tried to directly contact the sales manager.
as i just said a few posts back, after finally getting through to a manager today, it’s now clear nothing i’ve done was paid attention to. in fact, what he said was they more than likely got it and just ignored it. they said they have a policy and protocol on exactly the only way they’ll accept a cancellation. (which i’m not sure how i’d know what said policy was, but whatever). he said he understood the situation and agreed with the rationale, and even said the sales manager was aware–but it didn’t matter. not unless i did all this certified mail follow-protocol mumbo jumbo. i’m still not sure why a reply, followup call or even an email reply explaining what i need to do instead wasn’t made–but whatever.
addendum to what i said before: if lawyers have overseeing bodies who will nail you if you give legal advice on the net (under an anonymous screen name that, i guess, lawyers are required to give the bar association??)–then why the hell would you even post in such threads? at all?
out of curiosity, has a lawyer ever been disbarred or otherwise professionally punished by the bar association or whoever else for anonymous advice on a forum?
like, has that ever happened?
ever?
and how would one even know you’re a lawyer? no one’s identified themselves as such.
It’s not that the bar will track us all down and hang us from the nearest tree. They’re not omniscient, or anything. However, if somebody sues over legal advice they received over a message board, they’ll certainly get involved at that point. It’s not even really about being disbarred, anyway; it’s about having to defend yourself in a malpractice suit.
For what it’s worth, neither jtgain nor I are lawyers, yet. However, message board activity is the sort of thing the character and fitness board might be interested in if our bar applications are flagged.
not to push the issue, but neither link have anything to do with was is being discussed here (tertiary advice of a legal nature). the first link is about defamation, not the veracity, ethics or legality of online law advice. it very well could have been a group of plumbers badmouthing the free advice of other plumbers suing over defamation.
to be clear, no one was sued for or about giving legal advice. group 2 were sued for defamation against group 1. they could have been in any field.
link 2 involves soliciting *paid *advice, which would constitute an attorney client relationship.
neither scenario are about kindly answering contractual questions on a forum. if this is the kind of thing that can be researched and has bearing on you becoming a lawyer, like i said before, maybe stay away.
but bear in mind the OP was asking if change in terms of service could be construed as a breach of contract. i wasn’t asking for advice on how to get out of the contract or advice on how to proceed. granted, in post two i lay out the happenings a bit more and say “what’s a good line of action,” but i followed that up with “here’s what i plan to do already…”
for the record, this thread affected nothing about the situation. i was expecting a bit of a fight, but upon direct communication w them i see there’s not going to be quite the dust up i initially expected. i just wanted to know, going in, if my logic (that they changed their name ((which explicitly stated terms of service)) and changed their services, which might be a breach on THEIR side) was sound.
