# Does a life-or-death call-out override sobriety laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935 "2012-07-01T19:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/1 "2012-07-01T19:55:59Z")
The scenario: you’re in a bar, enjoying a boozy evening out with friends. Your mobile rings. It’s a real emergency: if you don’t hustle, someone will die. Maybe you’re the only available pilot, maybe you’re the only available computer technician. A self-test kit has recently confirmed that you’re only modestly over the legal limit, but you’re over the limit nonetheless. You communicate this to the other party. They insist. Who assumes responsibility? Does it depend upon who calls you? Does it depend upon the degree of the incident for which you were called out? Does it depend upon the degree of the incident during the call-out that may have been because of your lack of sobriety? Nuance this further as you desire to enlighten Dopers. Sample scenarios: A Sheriff goes into the bar and needs help chasing the kidnapper of a little boy. You’re a medevac pilot and off-shift. The other pilots have gone down with food poisoning. If you don’t fly, the patient will die. A ship has gone down. The weather is bad and your plane is the only plane available capable of flying in such conditions. Sample issue You run a red light. While driving at 140 delivering a transplant organ you crash into a house. You run over someone, killing them. While your plane is taxiing to land after a [successful / unsuccessful] rescue you chew someone up with a propeller. During the rescue process, you land your seaplane atop a life-raft, killing all aboard. Add as you feel fit. Please note that this is GQ - if I wanted to ask if you would ignore sobriety laws, or convict someone who ignored sobriety laws in such circumstances, I would have put this in IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/2 "2012-07-01T19:59:26Z")
There is a defence of necessity in the UK to drink driving. Whether the above circumstances counted I do not know. Cite: [http://www.trafficlawyer4u.com/trafficlawyer/case\_studies\_detail.asp?example=drink\_driving\_defence\_of\_duress\_necessity\_of\_circumstance\_26](http://www.trafficlawyer4u.com/trafficlawyer/case_studies_detail.asp?example=drink_driving_defence_of_duress_necessity_of_circumstance_26) ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/3 "2012-07-01T21:11:43Z")
As far as I know, there is no excuse for drunk driving. “Oh, someone will die if I don’t drive” - someone very well may die if you do drive. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/4 "2012-07-01T21:37:17Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > As far as I know, there is no excuse for drunk driving. “Oh, someone will die if I don’t drive” - someone very well may die if you do drive. Ah, but does ‘will’ override ‘may’? ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/5 "2012-07-01T21:46:01Z")
If you’re a pilot or a surgeon, you’d damn well better not be flying or operating drunk. And the sheriff should know better than to recruit random civilians from a bar to chase a criminal suspect. If you’re too drunk to drive, you’re most likely too drunk to be the best person to respond to an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/6 "2012-07-01T22:29:28Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > If you’re a pilot or a surgeon, you’d damn well better not be flying or operating drunk. And the sheriff should know better than to recruit random civilians from a bar to chase a criminal suspect. > > If you’re too drunk to drive, you’re most likely too drunk to be the best person to respond to an emergency. Besides this point, there is no ‘necessity’ to drive drunk. Presumably there is at least one person in the bar who is still sober enough to drive you to the hospital operating room. Not to mention taxicabs. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/7 "2012-07-01T22:35:20Z")
Well, let’s try a different hypothetical, which doesn’t involve the drunk driver being some sort of professional whose services are required. You and your buddies are car camping out in the woods, clearly out of cellular range, with a cooler full of beer which you are happily consuming. Somebody gets bitten by a rattlesnake, or something else occurs which demands serious medical attention. The closest to sober person in the group drives the victim back into the nearest town to get help. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/8 "2012-07-01T23:00:02Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Well, let’s try a different hypothetical, which doesn’t involve the drunk driver being some sort of professional whose services are required. You and your buddies are car camping out in the woods, clearly out of cellular range, with a cooler full of beer which you are happily consuming. Somebody gets bitten by a rattlesnake, or something else occurs which demands serious medical attention. The closest to sober person in the group drives the victim back into the nearest town to get help. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Of course you drive to the hospital, as carefully as humanly possible. Some people seem to think that _every single time_ someone with a .08 BAC gets behind the wheel there is guaranteed to be a spectacular fiery crash that would do the A-Team proud, resulting in the death of dozens of nuns, genius-level toddlers, and 9/11 Search & Rescue hero puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/9 "2012-07-01T23:20:46Z")
[QUOTE] [Some people seem to think that every single time someone with a .08 BAC gets behind the wheel there is guaranteed to be a spectacular fiery crash that would do the A-Team proud, resulting in the death of dozens of nuns, genius-level toddlers, and 9/11 Search & Rescue hero puppies. /QUOTE] Oh, if only I had that way with words! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/10 "2012-07-01T23:36:46Z")
According to wikipedia’s entry on Necessity as a legal term: > [@](#): > > For example, a drunk driver might contend that he drove his car to get away from a kidnap (cf. North by Northwest). Most common law and civil law jurisdictions recognize this defense, but only under limited circumstances. Generally, the defendant must affirmatively show (i.e., introduce some evidence) that (a) the harm he sought to avoid outweighs the danger of the prohibited conduct he is charged with; (b) he had no reasonable alternative; (c) he ceased to engage in the prohibited conduct as soon as the danger passed; and (d) he did not himself create the danger he sought to avoid. Thus, with the “drunk driver” example cited above, the necessity defense will not be recognized if the defendant drove further than was reasonably necessary to get away from the kidnapper, or if some other reasonable alternative was available to him. However case law suggests necessity is narrowed to medical cases. But there are no cites, so continue to speculate until the lawyers find the thread. I can say that, as a nurse, I would absolutely not go to work intoxicated whether I had a driver or not, because if I fuck something up, Bad Things would happen to me and my license. On the other hand, if I’m not at work and you fall and sprain your ankle where I’ve been drinking, I’ll be somewhat more protected under Good Samaritan laws, and probably help you wrap it and we can drunk hobble together to find more appropriate help. A gushing head wound? My help would be limited to finding a cleanish bar towel and applying pressure while someone called an ambulance - no skilled nursing care, only care that any layperson could provide. If you get into more extravagant Mass Disaster scenarios, I guess I’d have to weigh the risk of people dying vs the risk of all the lawyers surviving. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/11 "2012-07-01T23:37:01Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > If you’re a pilot or a surgeon, you’d damn well better not be flying or operating drunk. And the sheriff should know better than to recruit random civilians from a bar to chase a criminal suspect. > > If you’re too drunk to drive, you’re most likely too drunk to be the best person to respond to an emergency. There’s no point nitpicking the scenarios because you can just expand the scenarios until they’re more precise eg: > [@](#): > > If you’re a pilot or a surgeon, you’d damn well better not be flying or operating drunk. What if you’re the only pilot who can fly the plane who happens to be in the bar at that time? What if you’re the only surgeon in there? I’d rather be operated on by a drunk surgeon than a sober regular guy. > [@](#): > > And the sheriff should know better than to recruit random civilians from a bar to chase a criminal suspect. What if you’re not a random civilian but a deputy on your night off? And you have a particular skill in some area? Necessity would probably cover you as long as nothing happens but what’s more interesting is what would happen if you killed someone in the process or something. I reckon you’d be let off the drunk driving but be found guilty of manslaughter - you’ve still got to take measures to make sure you don’t harm any innocents even if you’re legally drunk driving ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/12 "2012-07-01T23:43:17Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > I’d rather be operated on by a drunk surgeon than a sober regular guy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/13 "2012-07-02T00:05:17Z")
I was thinking of the situation where you are the only one who can drive but perhaps drunk at a campsite when you find out about a forest fire that is approaching your location and the only hope for you, your pregnant wife who can’t drive, and your 3 other children is to drive out of the area. It would seem very irresponsible and perhaps even child abuse or reckless endangerment if you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/14 "2012-07-02T00:13:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I was thinking of the situation where you are the only one who can drive but perhaps drunk at a campsite when you find out about a forest fire that is approaching your location and the only hope for you, your pregnant wife who can’t drive, and your 3 other children is to drive out of the area. It would seem very irresponsible and perhaps even child abuse or reckless endangerment if you didn’t. But we all know any responsible doper would say “Sorry kids, I’ve just had three beers and won’t be getting behind the wheel of that car for exactly three hours come hell or high water…or forest fire. Would someone please set a timer for three hours, it’s my understanding that three hours is how long it’ll take for all the alcohol to flush out of my body so that we are safe to drive again. It’s the law! Now, who’s got marshmallows.” (Feel free to make appropriate adjustments so that it’s ‘below the legal limit’ instead of ‘all the alcohol is out of my system’) ---
**Author:** ![Mopal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Mopal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mopal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/15 "2012-07-03T15:24:08Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > If you get into more extravagant Mass Disaster scenarios, I guess I’d have to weigh the risk of people dying vs the risk of all the lawyers surviving. In most serious speculative end of the world scenarios cockroaches are the last to go. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/16 "2012-07-03T17:02:51Z")
The “drunk driver escaping from a knife-wielding attacker” was the textbook necessity case I was taught in criminal law. All of the other hypos would be case specific. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/17 "2012-07-03T17:24:07Z")
I’m not an absolutist on this one, and I doubt the law is either. If I were on a jury, I’d take circumstances into consideration, including the level of impairment versus the direness of the emergency. Although I’d also take the drunk surgeon over the sober regular guy, I’d prefer a sober, well-rested one. And if I have to have emergency surgery on the pool table of the bar, I’ll take the surgeon with the lowest BAC (you’d think someone sober would be on call, but if the zombie apocalypse hits in the middle of the surgeons’ convention when everyone’s shitfaced, so be it). If it’s a true life-or-death situation, the law would likely agree. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/18 "2012-07-03T21:05:22Z")
This actually happened to, of all people, Keith Moon. From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Moon#Car-pedestrian_death): > [@](#): > > On 4 January 1970, Moon was involved in a car-pedestrian death outside the Red Lion pub in Hatfield, Hertfordshire. Trying to escape hostile patrons from the pub who had begun to attack his Bentley, the drunk Moon attempted to take control of his car, which in the melee ran over and killed his friend, driver, and bodyguard, Neil Boland. Although the coroner said Boland’s death was an accident and Moon was given an absolute discharge having been charged with driving offences, those close to him said Moon was haunted by the accident for the rest of his life. Boland’s daughter spent a significant amount of time investigating and questioning each witness from the police blotter, and concluded that Moon was not the person behind the wheel of the car. However, Moon never recovered from feelings of guilt. According to Pamela Des Barres, a groupie with whom Moon had had a three-year relationship, Moon would have nightmares that would wake them both during the night. Immediately after waking, Moon would be convinced that he had no right to be alive The daughter thinks that Keith’s wife, Kim, was driving but that Keith took the rap for her. She interviewed an eye witness who said > [@](#): > > We were at the disco because we liked The Who. There wasn’t any trouble all night, untill we left. Everyone was leaving the disco quite happy and when we saw Kim Moon getting in a Bentley, my mate said ‘give us a lift home’, as a joke. She told us to’ fuck off '. So when the car left the car park we flicked pennies on the roof. The car suddenly stopped and the driver got out running at us as if to start trouble. There was a bit of a fight and the car sped off. The driver, who wasn’t hurt, ran after the car which stopped down the road. We chased after him, he ran around the front of the car where the fight continued. Then i saw Kim Moon drive the car at everyone, she didnt seem to have any control of the car. I went over the wing of the car and landed on my feet. I noticed the driver was still in front and she just kept on going. We all shouted for the car to stop but it kept going down the road. My mate stopped the car with his van outside the social club. I didn’t run away, we tried to lift the car off the driver but it was too heavy. I went to the police station that night and told them what happened. I was charged with causing an affray weeks later, we all pleaded guilty and i was given a 50 pound fine. The judge at the trial blamed Keith Moon’s showing off for the bad feeling that started the trouble. I have always thought he was trying to take the blame, thats why he said he was driving. http://del\_pasado.tripod.com/keithmoonwasnotdriving/ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/19 "2012-07-03T21:22:17Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > This actually happened to, of all people, Keith Moon. From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Moon#Car-pedestrian_death): How sad, but it does answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-life-or-death-call-out-override-sobriety-laws/626935/20 "2012-07-03T21:59:54Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > And if I have to have emergency surgery on the pool table of the bar, I’ll take the surgeon with the lowest BAC. Eh, if you’re in that bad a shape that your best hope is to have someone drunk cut on you on a pool table, you’re most likely dead anyway.