# Does a Philly Cheesesteak need Cheez-Whiz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525 "2010-09-29T21:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/61 "2010-10-03T23:24:12Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Yes, like no-one before him thought of putting thinly sliced steak on a roll.:rolleyes: > > [Cheesesteak History](http://www.visitphilly.com/restaurants-dining/authentic-philly-cheesesteaks/) > “The cheesesteak made its official debut in 1930. Pat Olivieri was a South Philadelphia hot dog vendor who one day decided to put some beef from the butcher on his grill. A taxicab driver noticed the alluring aroma and asked for his own steak sandwich. The next day, as the story goes, rumor of the delicious lunch had spread, and cabbies around the city came to Olivieri demanding steak sandwiches. Soon after, Olivieri opened up a shop on 9th Street and Passyunk Avenue, Pat’s King of Steaks, to sell his new creation. Eventually, according to legend, he added cheese to the recipe. Today, Pat’s grills are sizzling 24 hours a day, as are Geno’s, the rival shop across the street.”😛 [QUOTE=DrDeth] That’s nice. But it’s hardly proof he thought of the first steak sandwich. In fact, since the Earl of Sandwich (and likely before) there’s been steak sandwiches. [/QUOTE] > [@Turble](#): > > You’re absolutely right, of course … unless this thread is about the Philly Cheesesteak. Pat Olivieri didn’t invent the steak sandwich. Period. He almost certainly didn’t invent the cheesesteak sandwich. Period. HIs heirs say as much. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/62 "2010-10-03T23:47:02Z")
But he did invent the Philadelphia steak sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/63 "2010-10-03T23:59:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But he did invent the Philadelphia steak sandwich. Probably not, but I haven’t investigated the _Philadelphia_ steak sandwich. Steak sandwiches were very available long before Pat. They were around from at least the teens-20’s. If they weren’t available in Philly, I’d be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/64 "2010-10-04T00:21:42Z")
Not being from Philadelphia and never visiting there, My first Phillycheesesteak was at The Great Steak and Potato Company back in the eighties. It never seemed like a controversy, you could get either provolone or philly cheese, and I preferred the provolone. I like both, however… nothing wrong with the whiz but I’ve always thought it was a little too salty and never been a fan of that artificial cheddar flavor. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/65 "2010-10-04T01:05:33Z")
Here’s the controversy was/is a Great Steak Philly Cheese Steak in '85 just as tasty/tastier than a Pat’s or Geno’s in '10? Say what you want about that franchise, but they made a helluva cheesesteak back in the day. It was the same meat and ingredients as far as I could tell, but I bet they had a better roll than even Pat or Geno’s. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/66 "2010-10-04T01:35:23Z")
Plus, my earliest Philly Cheesesteak experiences were always informed by the combo of a Cheesesteak accompanied by Hot, Crispy, Hand Cut, Skin-on, “Carnival fries” with salt and malt vinegar. Can you get that at Pat’s or Geno’s? … as far as I’m concerned, native Philadelphians have missed out on the better cheesesteak tradition and _taste sensation_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/67 "2010-10-04T02:07:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But he did invent the Philadelphia steak sandwich. What _is_ a Philadelphia steak sandwich? In fact, the way he made it- with Cheese Whiz- is not the way others do. Thus, he invented the sandwich he sells, a small variation on the steak sandwich. Others invented slight variations on his version. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/68 "2010-10-04T02:15:59Z")
Otherwise known as, I prefer the less acidic and melty natural cheese (provolone) plastic with my vinegar dressed carnival fries. Otherwise, they clash, da whiz and da finnegar. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/69 "2010-10-04T03:15:56Z")
I can sort of understand the anger at Great Steak for offering Mushrooms as a steak topping. In the orthodoxy of Philly Cheezesteak, I think it should only be onions- and maybe, maybe, peppers. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/70 "2010-10-04T03:18:41Z")
Although a Chicagoland sounds good right about now- **Chicagoland Cheesesteak** This one’s got it all – Philly Cheese, Provolone & White American cheese with grilled onions, green peppers & mushrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/71 "2010-10-04T05:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > What is a Philadelphia steak sandwich? In fact, the way he made it- with Cheese Whiz- is not the way others do. Thus, he invented the sandwich he sells, a small variation on the steak sandwich. Others invented slight variations on his version. Grilled chopped beef and some sort of cheese, on a firm, crusty hoagie roll, with optional onions and/or mushrooms, and nothing else. What isn’t on it is nearly as important as what is: If you add lettuce and tomato, say, as almost everyone outside of Philadelphia seems to, it isn’t a Philadelphia cheesesteak any more. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/72 "2010-10-04T23:01:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What isn’t on it is nearly as important as what is: If you add lettuce and tomato, say, as almost everyone outside of Philadelphia seems to, it isn’t a Philadelphia cheesesteak any more. Of course not. It’s a cheesesteak hoagie if it has lettuce and tomato. And it costs extra. I have a weird compulsion to try “Philadelphia” cheesesteaks when traveling, just to see what the out of towners get wrong (besides the roll, which is a given; the proper long Italian roll seems hard to get outside of Philadelphia). Probably the most common error is assuming lettuce and tomato are standard toppings. The sheer simplicity of hot meat, melted cheese and crusty bread (and grilled onions if you must) seems to be unappreciated outside the Delaware Valley. Another error is offering toppings that are simply wrong. Once a Manhattan “Philly steak” place asked if I wanted mayo; I barely got my breath back in time to say no. Mayo on a cheesesteak! ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/73 "2010-10-05T06:25:08Z")
What about a Cheesesteak Parmagiana… Think it would work? Instead of paper thin slices of ribeye, slice them a bit more substantially… a 1/4 inch or so scallopini… roll in flour, dip in eggwash, and coat in Italian Breadcrumbs… fry them up like chicken fried steak on the flattop in a pool of butter. Top each with a half slice of provolone and steam… Serve on the Steak roll with sauteed onions and peppers, and a dab of simple marinara. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/74 "2010-10-05T07:42:01Z")
I wouldn’t blame ya, if you deepfried the Iti-coated Ribeye, chicken fried steak. You might even want to use a kinetic tenderizer. The rolling needles. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/75 "2010-10-05T11:06:37Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > What about a Cheesesteak Parmagiana… Think it would work? > > Instead of paper thin slices of ribeye, slice them a bit more substantially… a 1/4 inch or so scallopini… roll in flour, dip in eggwash, and coat in Italian Breadcrumbs… fry them up like chicken fried steak on the flattop in a pool of butter. Top each with a half slice of provolone and steam… Serve on the Steak roll with sauteed onions and peppers, and a dab of simple marinara. A veal parm sandwich? Pretty much every pizza joint in this part of the world does that already. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/76 "2010-10-05T11:35:57Z")
This is the gustatory equivalent of Jacob vs. Edward. ---
**Author:** ![pyromyte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@pyromyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyromyte)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/77 "2010-10-05T13:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I was on a bus and it was the middle of the night, and I had a box of crackers and a can of easy cheese. But it was the middle of the night, so I could not see how much easy cheese I was applying to each cracker. So each bite into the cracker was a surprise as to how much easy cheese I had applied, which makes me believe that they should have a glow in the dark version of easy cheese. It’s not like the product has any integrity to begin with. If you buy a room temperature cheese that you squeeze out of a can, you probably won’t get mad cuz it glows in the dark too. > -Mitch Hedberg Sorry, couldn’t resist. Put me in the anti Cheez Whiz crowd (I admit I’ve never tried it on a cheesesteak sandwich), but I do not like processed cheese products. I have had Cheez Whiz on crackers, but I wouldn’t say they were very good. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/78 "2010-10-05T20:13:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Grilled chopped beef and some sort of cheese, on a firm, crusty hoagie roll, with optional onions and/or mushrooms, and nothing else. What isn’t on it is nearly as important as what is: If you add lettuce and tomato, say, as almost everyone outside of Philadelphia seems to, it isn’t a Philadelphia cheesesteak any more. Which is just about a patty melt, ain’t it? Except a patty melt used different bread and often hamburger- which is of course a \*type \*of Grilled chopped beef. Again, minor variations. Here in CA, they often use a Bolito (sp?) roll, which is soft, white and with a little crustyness. Lettuce, Tomato, Pizza sauce, etc are all only options, often with different names. According to the reviews, the local Philly Steak places are often very close to Phila places, and quite good. Calvin’s World Famous South Philly Cheesesteaks are/were tasty as are other local places. And I have had steak sandwiches at places like Original Joes that were nothing but a nice slice of steak on a roll with grilled onions. The difference being the thinly sliced or chopped beef on the Philly and the addition of cheese. So, since even the “Original” has local variations, there’s no “originator” of something which has been around for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/79 "2010-10-05T20:18:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is just about a patty melt, ain’t it? Except a patty melt used different bread and often hamburger- which is of course a \*type \*of Grilled chopped beef. Again, minor variations. Are there patty melts without hamburger? To me, a patty melt is a griddled hamburger patty (hence the name) with cheese and griddled, slightly caramelized onions. (Not grilled. Then again, I’ve never had a cheese steak that was grilled, either.) It is served on rye bread. I suppose in a way they are similar, but they’re different foodstuffs to me, in the way a roast beef sandwich and a hamburger are different to me. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/80 "2010-10-05T20:20:19Z")
I am from California but my wife is from Philly. I voted with Gino because of the word need in the title. Does Cheesesteak _need_ Wiz? No, provolone is an acceptable substitute. But I have seen the light and know that a cheesesteak is demonstrably better with wiz. It took some convincing on my wife’s part to get me to try it, but once I did I haven’t looked back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525.md?page=5)