# Does a Philly Cheesesteak need Cheez-Whiz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525 "2010-09-29T21:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/101 "2010-10-07T06:05:43Z")
Anything with Cheeze Whiz cannot be considered food. It’s called Whiz, why would you want to eat it? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/102 "2010-10-07T06:30:02Z")
I’ll scrape off and boil these delicious oysters on the side of the boat, while you are gone. That’s my Philly reference, but I thought Mac and company were missive in telling Danny and co. not to eat the barnacles. Those are a true delicacy and a signification of healthy water quality. I want another catfish. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/103 "2010-10-07T07:19:33Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > Anything with Cheeze Whiz cannot be considered food. It’s called Whiz, why would you want to eat it? 'Cause it tastes good? All real food snobs know that there’s a time when you draw the line between gourmet and ballpark. Come on, please. It’s food. If I ended up hosting the queen of England at a surprise party in my backyard tomorrow-- She’d get the best hot dogs available, I’d make sure mustard and ketchup were available, and wouldn’t say a thing when she went for the red stuff… I’m sure that folks who hate the Whiz do so because of it’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/104 "2010-10-07T17:31:22Z")
Quoth **DrDeth** : > [@](#): > > Well, you see- exactly what ingrediant makes a Philly cheesesteak a Philly Cheesesteak? Not the cheese, clearly (that’s the debate here). The beef also varies. The roll varies (well out here in CA we don’t have the Amoroso), and it ain’t the onions. Why on Earth would anyone think that a single ingredient makes a dish? I can’t think of any other food for which that’s true; why would cheesesteaks be any different? Rather, any dish is made up of some combination of ingredients, and I’ve already given the combination of ingredients that makes a cheesesteak. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/105 "2010-10-07T18:48:10Z")
Another Philadelphia native here seconding the idea that American or Provolone are the defaults. I don’t believe I have _ever_ had a cheesesteak with Cheez Whiz; nor had I even heard of this phenomenon until news stories about Pat’s and Geno’s (tourist traps I have never been to) started appearing in the national media. May God strike me dead if I ever utter the phrase “Whiz wit.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/106 "2010-10-07T19:42:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **DrDeth** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Well, you see- exactly what ingrediant makes a Philly cheesesteak a Philly Cheesesteak? Not the cheese, clearly (that’s the debate here). The beef also varies. The roll varies (well out here in CA we don’t have the Amoroso), and it ain’t the onions. > > Why on Earth would anyone think that a single ingredient makes a dish? I can’t think of any other food for which that’s true; why would cheesesteaks be any different? Rather, any dish is made up of some combination of ingredients, and I’ve already given the combination of ingredients that makes a cheesesteak. Well one might gather from the name of the dish that cheese is an important ingredient. Your argument in general is fallacious. You might as well claim that it makes no difference which end of an egg you crack. However there is a point to be made. The term ‘Philly Cheesesteak’ has come to denote a product sold nationwide, which often used the wrong end of the egg. Real Philadelphia cheesesteaks were traditionally made using provolone, as you can gather from the actual residents who just call them ‘cheesesteaks’, with no qualifier necessary. Like in China, where they just call their local dishes ‘food’. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/107 "2010-10-07T19:53:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Well one might gather from the name of the dish that cheese is an important ingredient. Your argument in general is fallacious. You might as well claim that it makes no difference which end of an egg you crack. I’d argue that cheese is an addition to the product, which is a steak, or steak sandwich. We’d talk about going to grab a steak once the bar closed. I try to make it a rule never to buy such a sandwich from a place that calls it a Philly Cheesesteak, or a Philadelphia Cheesesteak. And certainly not from a palce that considers peppers or mushrooms to be standard ingredients in one. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/108 "2010-10-07T20:15:55Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’d argue that cheese is an addition to the product, which is a steak, or steak sandwich. We’d talk about going to grab a steak once the bar closed. > > I try to make it a rule never to buy such a sandwich from a place that calls it a Philly Cheesesteak, or a Philadelphia Cheesesteak. And certainly not from a palce that considers peppers or mushrooms to be standard ingredients in one. Good point. I’d go with a plain steak without a problem. Onions should be the only standard extra. I like mushrooms and sweet peppers occasionally, but those are extras, not part of the standard package. The inambiguity of ‘cheesesteak’ may have made it the more common term, avoiding ‘ditcha wanna steak er a steak samich?’ and confusion with the variety of other forms of ‘steak sandwhich’ in different localities. Up here in NE its often called a ‘steak and cheese’, but the term cheesesteak is recognized as the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/109 "2010-10-07T20:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Well one might gather from the name of the dish that cheese is an important ingredient. Your argument in general is fallacious. You might as well claim that it makes no difference which end of an egg you crack. Yes, cheese is an essential ingredient in a cheesesteak, but that doesn’t mean it has to be one particular kind of cheese. And you can’t argue that the dish is really nationwide and point to the fact that many places that make it do it differently: That’s like saying that pizza can have egg on it, because quiche is a lot like pizza, and quiche has egg. A sandwich consisting of chopped grilled beef and cheese, possibly with onions and/or mushrooms, on a firm, crusty hoagie roll, with nothing else added, is very common in the Philadelphia area, and very rare everywhere else in the country. It makes sense, then, to call such a sandwich a “Philadelphia cheesesteak”, and to say that sandwiches that do not meet that description are not “Philadelphia cheesesteaks”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/110 "2010-10-07T21:01:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [A sandwich consisting of chopped grilled beef and cheese, possibly with onions and/or mushrooms, on a firm, crusty hoagie roll, with nothing else added, is very common in the Philadelphia area, and very rare everywhere else in the country. It makes sense, then, to call such a sandwich a “Philadelphia cheesesteak”, and to say that sandwiches that do not meet that description are not “Philadelphia cheesesteaks”. Like I said, we have 4+ shops specializing in that very sandwich within walking distance of my house. Except that some use very thin slices of beef that are not “chopped”, and the rolls vary a bit. Now sure- other items are available _as options_ on the basic sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/111 "2010-10-07T21:06:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A sandwich consisting of chopped grilled beef and cheese, possibly with onions and/or mushrooms, on a firm, crusty hoagie roll, with nothing else added, is very common in the Philadelphia area, and very rare everywhere else in the country. No. No, no, no, no, no! NOT possibly with onions and/or mushrooms. A cheesteak with onions is still just a cheesesteak. A cheesteak with mushrooms is not a cheesteak, it’s a cheesesteak with mushrooms. Mushrooms are not part of the basic cheesesteak in any place I have seen that does not call it a “Philly Cheesesteak” rather than just a cheesesteak. While I am on this. Lettuce and tomato aren’t part of a cheesesteak. Nothing wrong with them, but order a frigging cheesesteak hoagie. Don’t claim it is authentic and then add salad to the bloody thing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/112 "2010-10-07T21:15:08Z")
A fun [Philadelphia Enquirer article](http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_cheesesteak_cometh/page1) on cheesesteaks, with quotes from a wide assortment of folks piecing together an oral history of the cheesesteak. > [@](#): > > Maury Z. Levy: People who aren’t from here are appalled by the idea of Cheez Whiz: “What? People don’t really eat that!” Some think it’s worse than Spam. We had the original junk food. > > Basil Maglaris, spokesman, Kraft Foods: The Philadelphia/South Jersey market accounts for approximately one-quarter of our total Cheez Whiz food-service sales in the U.S. And the same market accounts for 50 percent of our American White Cheese Slices, as it’s another popular ingredient in the Philly cheesesteak. Sure, the original was provolone, but who cares? In Philly, there’s three acceptable cheeses: provolone, American, and Whiz. And Pat’s makes a perfectly acceptable cheesesteak, I don’t care how much better Tony Luke’s or the local neighborhood joint is. (And I’m one who seeks out the little holes-in-the-wall. That said, the progenitors or most visible outposts of a regional food usually actually _are_ pretty good. Pizzaria Uno in Chicago, is good. Not my favorite, but definitely worth visiting. Same with the Anchor Bar. People told me, no only tourists go there, their wings suck, etc. You know what? It was full of locals and I preferred their wings to Duff’s. Same with Pat’s or Geno’s. They’re good steaks, and if Pat (and other establishments) in Philadelphia offer Whiz as a choice, that’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525/113 "2010-10-09T10:10:37Z")
Apparently, here in America there is also a small noveau tradition of French Cheesesteaks. I saw a segment on some food channel, very likely the Food Network, some several years ago featuring a Boheme Frenchman selling Loaded French Baguettes with versions of fried steak with brie, gruyere’, mushrooms, garlic onions, and Herbes de Provence. He had quite a variety including foie, poultry, and other fine cheeses. I don’t remeber where it was at exactly, but I seem to recall he sold them riverside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-philly-cheesesteak-need-cheez-whiz/555525.md?page=5)