# Does a socioeconomic elite class have value to people who aren't in it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434 "2006-01-24T20:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/41 "2006-01-30T16:00:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There is also the value of an elite class as a training-ground for public service. In Britain, the gentry have historically provided society with its top civil servants, military officers, clergy, local justices of the peace – in general, leaders. Now, any society, however egalitarian, will have some kind of “institutional elite.” That does not logically require said elite be drawn mainly from a social elite class. But, is it perhaps better if it is? Do people raised in wealth and privilege make more effective leaders? There is nothing about being raised in wealth and privilege that makes someone an inherently better leader and quite often, it actually makes them worse. That said, people who come from wealth and priviledge have better access to education and capital for business opportunities. They are more used to being around wealth and the social elite. That does not mean they would be a more effective politician, general, or judge. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/42 "2006-01-30T17:34:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Really? I haven’t read _Atlas Shrugged,_ but I have read _The Fountainhead._ And I get the impression that, in Rand’s world-view, a society composed entirely of Howard Roarks and Roark-emulators would be neither desirable nor possible. I just don’t see that. (Obviously, it would be undesirable for the book, since a story about universally enlightened people lecturing each other about their enlightenment would be even more didactic than Rand is anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/43 "2006-01-30T17:45:19Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You take Fussell seriously? His book has “Humor” written on the spine. He says that class isn’t a matter of wealth or ancestry(or at least not wealth and ancestry alone), then gives examples that are all wealth and ancestry. For no good reason he comes up with “Class X” for those that doesn’t fit into the other classes, but which conveniently contains Paul Fussell. Fussell’s book is humorous and maybe a little inconsistent, but that doesn’t mean there’s no truth to it. I already voiced my discontent regarding class X and a couple other issues above, but I still think the book is basically good. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/44 "2006-01-30T18:35:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Fussell’s book is humorous and maybe a little inconsistent, but that doesn’t mean there’s no truth to it. I already voiced my discontent regarding class X and a couple other issues above, but I still think the book is basically good. How do you know when he’s funnin’ you and when he isn’t? His humor is apparently so dry that you can’t tell. I don’t know if that’s intentional or not. all i do know is that I disagree with a lot of what he says, both in this and in his book **Bad**. A lot of what he says seems to me not observant of class differences, but downright snobbish. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/45 "2006-01-31T05:59:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > How do you know when he’s funnin’ you and when he isn’t? His humor is apparently so dry that you can’t tell. I don’t know if that’s intentional or not. all i do know is that I disagree with a lot of what he says, both in this and in his book **Bad**. A lot of what he says seems to me not observant of class differences, but downright snobbish. I haven’t read Bad, so I can’t comment on it, but I don’t see the inaccuracies in Class. Perhaps this is a bit of a hijack and deserves its own thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/46 "2006-01-31T12:03:47Z")
Would a totally egalitarian society produce outstanding leaders ? Inventors ? Generals ? I think they would produce less of these… unless its provides so well to so many that many more have time to devote to things beyond mere survival and daily chores. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/47 "2006-01-31T16:30:20Z")
There is most certainly an aristocratic upper class in America. Once while traveling I had a friend from another country ask if anyone could really be president in America. I had to explain that yeah, it’s technically possible, but it’s never really happened that way. There is still pretty much a group of people you need to be born in to if you want to be president. Frankly, if the kind of leaders we’re getting are a result of this, bring on the change! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/48 "2006-01-31T16:40:26Z")
Was Bill Clinton born into that group? How about Ronald Reagan or Jimmy Carter or Richard Nixon or Harry Truman? Yes, if you are born into the elite you’ve got a head start. But Bill Clinton certainly wasn’t born into the elite. George Bush, George HW Bush, John Kennedy and both Roosevelts may have been born into the elite and gone on to become president, but we’ve had plenty of counterexamples. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434/49 "2006-02-02T01:11:11Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > How do you know when he’s funnin’ you and when he isn’t? His humor is apparently so dry that you can’t tell. I don’t know if that’s intentional or not. all i do know is that I disagree with a lot of what he says, both in this and in his book **Bad**. A lot of what he says seems to me not observant of class differences, but downright snobbish. I’d say that, in _Class_, he pretty much skewers everyone evenhandedly; he’s no more complimentary of rich frivolity or proletarian _Lumpenheit_ than he is of the class anxiety of the middles. And when it comes to professions he is perhaps least complimentary of his own, claiming that university professors tend to be downright boorish outside their own area of expertise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-socioeconomic-elite-class-have-value-to-people-who-arent-in-it/341434.md?page=2)