# Does a woman contemplating abortion owe any notice to the father of the baby? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900 "2005-11-01T14:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/81 "2005-11-02T16:46:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The man makes his choice when he puts his sperm inside her body. The woman makes her choice when she accepts the sperm inside her body. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/82 "2005-11-02T16:52:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > As long as it’s a fetus, it’s part of her body. I’m curious about one thing that popped into my head reading this. Given that the fetus is nothing more than part of her body, does the man have any responsibility with respect to the pregnancy? There are a number of expenses related to managing a pregnancy, from clothing to medical care. There are also emotional/physical concerns. I imagine that many men contribute financially to these things, and provide other support during pregnancy, should it be expected? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/83 "2005-11-02T16:55:35Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m curious about one thing that popped into my head reading this. Given that the fetus is nothing more than part of her body, does the man have any responsibility with respect to the pregnancy? There are a number of expenses related to managing a pregnancy, from clothing to medical care. There are also emotional/physical concerns. > > I imagine that many men contribute financially to these things, and provide other support during pregnancy, should it be expected? In my opinion, no. I don’t believe the man’s responsibilities should attach until there is a birth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/84 "2005-11-02T17:01:31Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > The woman makes her choice when she accepts the sperm inside her body. No, the woman has the physical ability to make her choice well after that point. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/85 "2005-11-02T17:10:50Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No, the woman has the physical ability to make her choice well after that point. This is irrelevant. It’s all a matter of law. The man certainyl has the “physical ability” to make his choice to support the baby or not well after the insertion of the sperm. It’s just that the law won’t let him. If the law allows a woman the ability to make her choice (to have a baby) well after the insertion of the sperm, it should also allow the man the ability to make his choice (to support the baby) well after the insertion of the sperm. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/86 "2005-11-02T17:33:35Z")
The law is different because the biology dictates that it be different. Only one of the two is affected physically by pregnancy and it’s ridiculous to say that person should be deprived of her autonomy over her own body simply to satisfy some misplaced sense of “unfairness” that a man has to make his choice before the woman does. Once again, society is not served in anyway by placing all legal responsibility for children solely on women. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/87 "2005-11-02T17:43:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The law is different because the biology dictates that it be different. Only one of the two is affected physically by pregnancy and it’s ridiculous to say that person should be deprived of her autonomy over her own body I did not say we should deprive her of her autonomy. Let’s keep it, and also give some choice to the man. > [@](#): > > Once again, society is not served in anyway by placing all legal responsibility for children solely on women. This is a strawman. I did not advocate “placing all legal responsibility for children solely on women”. If they both want the baby, they share legal responsibility. If neither wants it, there is no baby. If she doesn’t want it, there is no baby. If he doesn’t want it, and yet she still decides she wants it, she has full legal responsibility. So, women will be in this situation only if they decide to have the baby fully knowing that they won’t get any help from the guy. They have full freedom to not have the baby if they can’t raise it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/88 "2005-11-02T18:00:55Z")
In other the words, the only men who won’t have to take responsibility are the ones who don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/89 "2005-11-02T18:20:31Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > OK, but if we accept this, then a woman shouldn’t be able to go to a man after theI agree that this would be a bad idea, but it is also a bad idea to make the man pay if the woman decides to have a baby. > > If he doesn’t want a baby and she does, her two options should not be > > 1. Abortion > 2. Keep the baby and force Joe to pay for its upbringing. > > but > > 1. Abortion > 2. Keep the baby and raise it with my own financial resources. If I may, there is a third option: Having the baby but putting it up for adoption. I would hope that would be considered before abortion, but I’m certainly not going to force a woman to have a baby if she doesn’t want one. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/90 "2005-11-02T18:35:00Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > In other the words, the only men who won’t have to take responsibility are the ones who don’t want to. And the only women who won’t have to take responsibility are the ones who don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/91 "2005-11-02T18:42:06Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > This is part of the abortion debate, does life begin at conception or birth. Some people feels it begins at birth, some feel it begins at conception, some feel it begins when the baby begins to develop consciousness, which is around 7 months, some when the fetus is ‘viable’ and able to survive outside the womb at about 6 months. > > The point is there is no easy answer because there is no universal definition of ‘life’. > > But back to the debate, I still think the woman owes it to a man because he may not share her definition of ‘life’ and just because she doesn’t want the baby doesn’t mean he doesn’t want it. She can just hand it over to him no questions asked if he wants it and she doesn’t. First, this isn’t a debate about when life begins, so let’s not steer into that territory-we’ll never get it back. Second, as for just “handing it over”, it’s the WOMAN who has to go through a pregnancy. It’s a woman who has to put her health and often her life on the line and deal with the complications. The man is not going to have to worry about the following: -gestational diabetes -hemorhoids -pre-eclampsia -post-partum depression and/or psychosis -Rh factor rejections with second pregnancy (if you have a negative blood type, and the father has positive, some times your body will try to reject the fetus, mostly in subsequent pregnancies. It’s been a while though since I studied this.) -over active bladder -mood swings -morning sickness -dental problems -weight gain -stretch marks -sore breasts -heartburn Yes, in this day and age, women still die in childbirth. When it’s YOUR life on the line, you get first say. As for men paying child support afterwards, I am OPEN to having the option of signing over complete parental rights, if a man truly wishes to do this, but if he does, it’s permanent-no going back and saying you want a relationship with your child, or having a say. At all, as iron clad as possible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/92 "2005-11-02T18:45:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Absolutely. If she can’t trust him to respect her decision then that’s an excellent reason not to tell him. He is not being hurt. You really need to read the OP. From the second sentence: > [@](#): > > Assuming a non-abusive relationship where the partners are together and in good health ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/93 "2005-11-02T19:15:17Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > And the only women who won’t have to take responsibility are the ones who don’t want to. Getting an abortion IS taking responisbility. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/94 "2005-11-02T19:40:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Getting an abortion IS taking responisbility. No, it isn’t. It might be the correct decision in some cases, but it is avoiding the more difficult responsibility of raising a child. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/95 "2005-11-02T19:57:28Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not “offspring” until it’s born. Until then it’s part of someone else’s body. Er, not to drag on an already too-long hijack, but I think calling a fetus “part of someone else’s body” is just flat out wrong. It may be 100% dependant, but a woman doesn’t grow a new part of her body for 9 months, and then lose that part of her body during pregnancy. Be careful of your terminology. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/96 "2005-11-02T20:21:52Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > No, it isn’t. > > It might be the correct decision in some cases, but it is avoiding the more difficult responsibility of raising a child. How is it avoiding responsibilty? It’s a addressing a problem head on and resolving it. It’s _completely_ responsible. That’s exactly the point. A woman does not have the option of simply running away and hiding from a pregnancy. She has no choice but to take responsibility. She must _deal_ with it, and terminating the pregnancy is no less of a responsible choice than carrying it to term. I would actually argue that it’s a _more_ responsible choice than keeping a child she can’t take care of. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/97 "2005-11-02T20:26:57Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Er, not to drag on an already too-long hijack, but I think calling a fetus “part of someone else’s body” is just flat out wrong. It may be 100% dependant, but a woman doesn’t grow a new part of her body for 9 months, and then lose that part of her body during pregnancy. Actually, I think that’s pretty much exactly what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/98 "2005-11-02T21:27:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > First, this isn’t a debate about when life begins, so let’s not steer into that territory-we’ll never get it back. > > Second, as for just “handing it over”, it’s the WOMAN who has to go through a pregnancy. It’s a woman who has to put her health and often her life on the line and deal with the complications. The man is not going to have to worry about the following: > -gestational diabetes > -hemorhoids > -pre-eclampsia > -post-partum depression and/or psychosis > -Rh factor rejections with second pregnancy (if you have a negative blood type, and the father has positive, some times your body will try to reject the fetus, mostly in subsequent pregnancies. It’s been a while though since I studied this.) > -over active bladder > -mood swings > -morning sickness > -dental problems > -weight gain > -stretch marks > -sore breasts > -heartburn > > Yes, in this day and age, women still die in childbirth. When it’s YOUR life on the line, you get first say. > > As for men paying child support afterwards, I am OPEN to having the option of signing over complete parental rights, if a man truly wishes to do this, but if he does, it’s permanent-no going back and saying you want a relationship with your child, or having a say. At all, as iron clad as possible. First, that is not your problem Second, I am not saying a man is equal to a woman in regards to a pregnancy. But we are debating totally cutting a man out of the loop, not giving him an equal footing on the situation. Find me a woman who can have a baby without a man in any way, shape or form and I’ll say men deserve to be cut out of the loop ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/99 "2005-11-02T21:33:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > First, this isn’t a debate about when life begins, so let’s not steer into that territory-we’ll never get it back. > > Second, as for just “handing it over”, it’s the WOMAN who has to go through a pregnancy. It’s a woman who has to put her health and often her life on the line and deal with the complications. The man is not going to have to worry about the following: > -gestational diabetes > -hemorhoids > -pre-eclampsia > -post-partum depression and/or psychosis > -Rh factor rejections with second pregnancy (if you have a negative blood type, and the father has positive, some times your body will try to reject the fetus, mostly in subsequent pregnancies. It’s been a while though since I studied this.) > -over active bladder > -mood swings > -morning sickness > -dental problems > -weight gain > -stretch marks > -sore breasts > -heartburn > > Yes, in this day and age, women still die in childbirth. When it’s YOUR life on the line, you get first say. > > As for men paying child support afterwards, I am OPEN to having the option of signing over complete parental rights, if a man truly wishes to do this, but if he does, it’s permanent-no going back and saying you want a relationship with your child, or having a say. At all, as iron clad as possible. There are no women who can have babies without a man in some form or another. Find me a woman who can suffer from gestational diabetes without a man helping her get pregnant and I will agree to cut the man out of the loop. This thread is about cutting a man out completely of the fetus’s development. If a woman can develop a fetus without a man then I’ll agree to cut him out of the decision 100%. True, men aren’t equal to women in the pregnancy phase but they deserve some say, that is like if I loaned someone $10,000 to buy a car and had no say in what happened to the car. When someone is able to buy a car without my money then I will have no say in what happens with it. As far as me steering the thread off course I don’t recall me trying to do that. I was making a point about there being no clear cut definition of life. If you misinterpreted that then that is your business. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900/100 "2005-11-02T21:59:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > In my opinion, no. I don’t believe the man’s responsibilities should attach until there is a birth. Very fair, thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-a-woman-contemplating-abortion-owe-any-notice-to-the-father-of-the-baby/328900.md?page=6)