Theoretically, though, one could imagine getting an egg implanted with DNA extracted from another egg, rather than DNA from sperm. Yes, the baby would always be female, but I think it would work. The ladies have all the working parts, we just provide the genetic diversity.
While I do bristle at the 9mo window where men are completely removed from all decision making, there is no way to let us make decisions without forcing those decisions on the woman, which isn’t cool.
The man is not physically affected by the development of the fetus and therefore has no right to say anything about it. It’s irrelevant where the sperm came from. As long as that fetus is inside another person, that person has all the say.
Also, what does it mean to say that a man should have “some say?” What do you mean by “some say?” If the man and woman disagree, who gets the final word?
There is no such thing as “partial” say in this decision. There has to be a tiebreaker. Someone has to have the ultimate authority and that has to be the person who is physically affected.
I agree it’s not fair in an absolute sense, but this is a decision where there really is no way to make it fair. All we can do is opt for what is the least unfair and will cause the fewest problems.
You claim a man has responsibility for the baby when he chooses to copulate. Then you claim the man has no authority or even a slight right of knowledge from copulation to birth of his sperm/egg union. Then the man miraculously becomes responsible once the baby is born. That is a crock. A huge crock.
Your views only help to propagate societies view that men are not wholly responsible to their children.
IMHO, a man has every moral right to know what and how the woman treats his sperm once SHE accepts it into her body. IMHO, I do not think he has any right to force her to be pregnant or have the child from their union, but SHE, by accepting the sperm, must accept responsibility to inform her partner of what her decision is/was to keep or reject a part of his body. And, just so you know, without a man contributing a part of his body, no baby.
Legally there is nothing one can do. But, who wants to be with a woman who goes around accepting a man’s sperm, gets pregnant and then just completely ignores the fact SHE is caring or not caring for a part of that man’s body.
You claim it is all about a woman’s body. And the carrying of the fertilized egg is all about the body. The abortion of the egg, however, kills the egg, which affects it, which does affect a part of that man.
If you then go and say that sperm was a gift then you can’t go on to claim that at birth the man is responsible. The man is responsible from conception to death for that egg.
I guess I can prove my point on your illogical view by asking a question:
When everything is going good with a pregnancy, the woman has chosen to have the baby, she knows who the father is, the father knows she is pregnant, the woman, like most women, can not work or produce what she once could to supply her needs through the pregnancy, does the man have any responsibility to help provide the woman with what she needs to have the baby and be healthy?
I dare you to follow your own logic and say no.
For what it’s worth, yes, I do believe a woman has a moral duty to inform her partner or the father or whoever before she gets an abortion. I don’t believe she has the duty to CONSULT with him necessarily, and I sure as hell don’t believe she should have a LEGAL duty to inform him.
However, there are always situations where it’s best nothing is said-abuse, etc. But assuming a non-abusive, healthy, loving relationship, again, I think it’s better if a couple discusses these things.
Choti, that’s what I was thinking. I could only imagine how betrayed I would feel in such a situation-being played for a fool.
I think he already did.
I’d think that this is a situation where science trumps belief.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think doctors would tell you that it is actually an ‘other’ in relationship to the mother’s body. I’m not saying that gives it any importance necessarially, but to call the fetus a part of the mother’s body just seems to ignore the facts. One thing being dependant on another for all things does not make the former part of the latter.
I have been coming here for years because of the respect I have for the posters here and the general level of intelligent discussion. (I admit that I probably don’t raise that bar, but…)
Of all the time here, this is the most disapointing, morally bankrupt statement I have come across.
The most beautiful thing in life, IMHO, is children and all that comes with them. I am also a man. I am also a father. It is obscene that someone, with any level of intelligence, would claim that men, in general, would not be affected by a woman aborting their child.
I am telling you right now Dio, that there is at least one man on this planet that would be emotionally devastated if his wife chose to abort their child without consultation, or at the least informing me of the act. It is her body to carry the egg through the pregnancy and therefore that is her decision. However, she is carrying or aborting something that is not totally her but is also a part of the man. To claim that by default that decision would have no affect on me is ridiculously wrong and morally disgusting, IMHO.
And, just so you all know, I am pro-choice and vote.
I’m sorry, Guin, I’m not following your logic here. Maybe I missed your point. Just because a man cannot physically suffer these symptoms does not mean that he is not emotionally involved in his wife’s pregnancy. Dio, did you never touch your wife’s baby to feel it kick? Did you not go with her to see the ultrasound? Did you not feel a sense of joy and wonder when you heard the heartbeat? Did you feel nothing for your child while it was still inside your wife?
If I may, Ivylad has a screwed-up back. Good days he can get around on a cane. Bad days (and there are more and more of those, it seems) he needs a walker. Very bad days (like today) he can’t get out of bed.
I cannot feel his pain. I have no idea of the physical agony he endures. Yet we make his medical decisions (like an upcoming risky surgery on his neck) together because we are a married couple. He could legally have his surgery without telling me. But because he loves me, and I love him, and we value each other’s opinion, and this could be a life-altering surgery, he’s not going to make such a decision without me. Just because a medical procedure involves only one spouse doesn’t wipe out the moral obligation to inform.
The point is clear.
Guin has no idea what a healthy, supportive, loving relationship is all about. Clear and simple. Double goes for Dio.
No. My point is, I was trying to explain to Wesley WHY women have final say over whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. I do NOT think it’s a good idea for women to have abortions without informing a loving, caring partner. Of COURSE one should care about the health and well-being of one’s SO! Did I say otherwise?
Wesley said, “Well, if a woman doesn’t want to have a baby, why not just hand it over to the man, and he’ll raise it?” (if there’s no real relationship). MY post was trying to explain why that’s not always an option.
See? I wasn’t talking about loving, healthy relationships at that point. I’m sorry I didn’t make it more clear.
Okay?
Ah, I see. Mea culpa, thanks for straightening that out for me.
No problem-I can see how it might be construed as saying otherwise.
(I sometimes have trouble explaining myself!)
Guin,
I see as well and apologise for jumping to conclusions.
That’s why I rarely stop by GD…you people scare the hell out of me in here!
We’re actually pretty cuddly, here. If you want to see people post with knives mounted on their cursors, try the Comments on Cecil’s Columns or on Staff Reports.
Looking at the viewing figures, I can understand the need for a plug.