My stance is that a fetus should be considered human upon exhibiting its human qualities, those that differentiate it from other animals (I don’t know if the early brain waves qualify, either that or those that form upon viability outside the womb as mentioned earlier). The “personhood” upon conception is merely a concept I think should be entertained by younger people before making an uneducated, irresponsible decision, because as I said, vicarious knowledge is pretty thin when you’re still young. I don’t think that it is actually a person, which is why I used quotation marks.
I don’t know the “real implications of abortion” myself, because I’m just a young boy. It’s impossible for me to comprehend the emotional aspects and common traumatizing aspects of abortion, even if I’ve seen footage.
To me this sounds akin to, “Don’t save kids who set their house on fire because they will only be careful with matches if they know they may burn their house down. If they believe the fire department will come and save them they will not take precautions no matter how many pictures of burned down houses they see.”
Like I was saying earlier, there is definitely an age consideration once emotion plays a role. A 14-year-old has no business getting pregnant, and will find the experience emotionally draining. It may or may not affect an adult woman. It all boils down to individual emotional maturity, which is almost universally absent in younger kids. The problem is that those who find the experience traumatizing are those who could not prepare for what they were to experience, which for kids would be exceedingly difficult compared to an adult. I have no citation, but would imagine the ratio of traumatized to satisfied abortion experiences would be higher in kids than adults. Therefore, there should be different considerations for younger kids with abortion. Simple enough I think.
What’s"irresponsible" or "uneducated’ about getting abortion? It’s certainly a more responsible decision than having a baby you can’t take care of.
Saying a fetus 'is a human when it exhibits human qualities" is a tautology, by the way. Plus the issue is whether it’s a person, not whether it’s human.
So what the Founding Fathers said or meant has little relevance, right?
Depends on what you mean by conception. Why is a morning after pill that expels the fertilized egg right after implantation different from an IUD which prevents the fertilized egg from implanting? The fact is, if fertilization is where you put the start of life, the only contraceptive techniques you should use are rubbers and money shots.
You have no data whatsoever with which to back this up.
What do you think is more traumatizing to a 14 year old, having an abortion, or having to carry a pregnancy, give birth and become a parent? I’ll give you a hint, it ain’t the abortion.
You say you’re a “young boy.” How young are you?
That’s because it’s a bad analogy. The dork who was playing with matches, unless mentally retarded, would know damn well the consequences of mistakenly lighting something on fire. The concept of abortion is more abstract and controversial, and keeping in mind that the adolescent brain is incapable of predicting clear-cut consequences for abstract situations, it becomes more difficult to attribute any negative or harmful connotations to abortion before it is experienced first hand. In both situations, the person will be “saved” (hopefully), but the emotional aspect is completely different.
What is this “footage” you mentioned earlier? Sounds like it may not be entirely objective.
Whether or not a 14 year old has any business being pregnant is irrelevant once it’s happened. They still have to make a choice. You seem to think an abortion is necessarily more traumatic than carrying a child to term and raising it or giving it up for adoption. I’m not convinced that’s true but I am not sure where to find unbiased stats.
Well with emotion, there isn’t much statistics can do for you. I’m just making generalizations based on what experience I’ve had. Which also renders your second statement meaningless, as it is your own idea, and as it would differ for each person. I think this aspect of the debate is kind of pointless to argue, as it’s all opinion.
I’m guessing ageism would be against me if I told you my age, but I’m 16.
Wonderful. I don’t either. I also don’t believe fetuses of implanted eggs are human. So how come you get to tell my daughters that they can’t have an abortion if they ever needed one, while a Buddhist can’t force you not to eat meat?
When life begins is a moral judgment, not a scientific one. Just like vegetarianism, it is something which people disagree about. Unless you think Buddhists picketing your grocery store or shooting your butcher makes sense, maybe you should butt out of the decisions other people make about what goes into and out of their bodies.
Right. So who decides? Isn’t it best to let the girl/woman make her own choice even if that means risking the wrong one? Do you think someone else should get to make that choice for her? Who would that be? A parent? It’s not uncommon for young girls to be impregnated by their relatives or other people they should be able to trust.
Generalizations based on your experience are fine as a basis for your own decisions. Not so much for everyone elses.
Since I am never going to get pregnant, I’ll leave that judgment up to the woman who is thinking about having an abortion. I think that is what choice is all about.
Having been present at the births of my two kids, I can assure you abortion isn’t the only messy procedure. Especially where my wife is involved.
Abortion may be traumatic to some, but not as traumatic as keeping a kid or having a kid and giving it away. Why don’t we let the woman decide which is the least traumatic option?
What experience is that? How many abortions have you had? How many pregnancies have you carried. Let me guess – you know a girl who had an abortion and is sad about it.
Great. It’s different for each person (it’s not really THAT different. Becoming a parent against your will at 14 is a FAR bigger deal than getting an abortion, but whatever. We’ll go with it). Then you’re admitting that for at least SOME people, getting an abortion is the less traumatic choice, correct?
I know it’s useless to say this to a 16-year-old, but you don’t know anywhere near as much as you think you do, and your perpectives will change greatly over the next 10, 20, 30 years. You may not change your opinion on abortion, but you will come to realize that it’s nowhere near as morally simple as you think it is now. Almost nothing is.
I don’t know what happens before the abortion, so I will take two roads:
If nothing is explained and all that happens is a form is signed and the fetus is bumped off, then there should be careful explanation as to the procedure and ultrasounds of the fetus before the final decision.
If this is already done normally, then I just think tests should be done to confirm DNA of the father and/or that there was no rape. Finding DNA of a relative or evidence of rape would make counseling a high priority, instead of just never speaking of the matter again once the patient leaves the building.
I kind of ran myself into a wall there, but I still assert that there should be careful emotional consideration based on age. That’s all I was ever saying.
Cite that there is likely to be trauma? What would you say to all the women who have had abortions without any trauma?
Can you provide any evidence that terminating a pregnancy at 14 is more “traumatic” than carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, and then either becoming an unqualified parent or havimng to give the baby up for adoption?
Do you think that women who give up babies for adoption are never traumatized or regretful about it?
