# Does Acupuncture Work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031 "2011-09-21T03:27:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/21 "2011-09-22T18:15:40Z")
> [@Rickymouse](#): > > There are many different sciences. Archeology, Paleontology, medicine, Physics, Mathamatics, etc… When you study a science you are taught to think in a certain way and when you get you’re degree you are expected to join in that scientific community and see things their way. If you do not see things the same way as the community you will get discredited. That’s human nature. Police are trained in acadamies to think alike. We are all conditioned to think like the members of the organizations we belong to. It’s not a bad thing, but it does cause conflict and it also slows progression of mankinds intelligence. We’re moving a little fast anyway. I’m sure that the Radiological Society of North America knows the right procedure for doing testing and I’m sure they wouldn’t release info like that without being sure. I don’t usually question evidence but I have learned to question the interpretations of evidence. > I have no comment on you’re comparison Vinyl Do you know what a double-blind study is and why it is important? Do you know why peer-reviewing is important? ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/22 "2011-09-22T18:25:30Z")
[http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/your.html](http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/your.html) Sorry, but it’s been bothering me. Also, the opposite of “order” is “chaos.” “Kaos” was the evil spy organization in “Get Smart.” ---
**Author:** ![Rickymouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/34f0e0/32.png) [@Rickymouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rickymouse)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/23 "2011-09-22T18:26:04Z")
Do those beautiful fairy women wear clothes Naita? Are you sure they are fairies and not some other creature? Have you been smoking anything? Are you just being sarcastic and trying to make a point. One or more of those answers may be right. When you feel a rumbling of the earth and things start jumping off the shelves in California, is it safe to say it isn’t an earthquake until it is proven? Could just be a big truck but you take precautions anyway if you are smart. ---
**Author:** ![Rickymouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/34f0e0/32.png) [@Rickymouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rickymouse)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/24 "2011-09-22T18:29:00Z")
Maybe I watched a little too much of max and agent 99 when I was young. Everything has a reason. I like Kaos better. It wouldn’t be chaotic if I spelled it right would it? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/25 "2011-09-25T00:08:40Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This is true. One time I was looking forward all day to having sex with my wife, but that night she said she was tired and asked if she could just give me a blowjob instead. Not only did I not enjoy it, it was like stuffing my dick into a burlap sock full of thistles! Should you choose to divorce her (or _vice verse_), tell her I’ll be happy to marry her and support your children, would you? Thanks. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/26 "2011-09-25T13:36:25Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > What? Why didn’t they do sham acupuncture treatment on the second group? Why not at least pretend they’re getting some form of treatment instead of filling out paperwork? Probably didn’t want to confuse people by admitting that [poking toothpicks randomly against the skin](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19433697?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) works as well as a trained acupuncturist putting in needles to stimulate “chi points.” Yup, the placebo works too! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/27 "2011-09-26T11:01:01Z")
> [@Rickymouse](#): > > Do those beautiful fairy women wear clothes Naita? Are you sure they are fairies and not some other creature? Have you been smoking anything? Are you just being sarcastic and trying to make a point. One or more of those answers may be right. > When you feel a rumbling of the earth and things start jumping off the shelves in California, is it safe to say it isn’t an earthquake until it is proven? Could just be a big truck but you take precautions anyway if you are smart. What if all reported incidents of things starting to jump off shelves have been shown to be equally well explained by construction errors, nearby tunnel works or unstable ground conditions, except for a very small minority of cases examined only by proponents of the earthquake theory, without checking for other possible causes? The scientific consensus is against you. The current consensus is based on a lot of research and the larger the study and better the controls the poorer the results of “real” acupuncture. You can cry “the paradigm is against” me all you want, but it only shows you don’t actually understand the research or paradigm theory. (Hint: A paradigm prevails while evidence against it is weak and scattered, but weak and scattered evidence is not proof of a paradigm being in the way of new knowledge.) ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/28 "2011-09-27T15:37:30Z")
> [@Rickymouse](#): > > What happened to inocent(real) until proven guilty(unreal). You’ve got the analogy backwards. We say someone is innocent until proven guilty because it’s wrong to assume facts that are not in evidence. We cannot assume someone has done something if we don’t have strong evidence (proof) that he or she did. Likewise, it’s wrong to assume that acupuncture is valid without strong evidence. So a new theory is “innocent” (not established as fact) until proven “guilty” (established as fact). Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/29 "2011-09-27T16:00:42Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This is true. One time I was looking forward all day to having sex with my wife, but that night she said she was tired and asked if she could just give me a blowjob instead. Not only did I not enjoy it, it was like stuffing my dick into a burlap sock full of thistles! 😃 > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Should you choose to divorce her (or _vice verse_), tell her I’ll be happy to marry her and support your children, would you? Thanks. 😃 So you _like_ a burlap sack full of thistles? :dubious: (:D) ---
**Author:** ![jimhsu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@jimhsu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimhsu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/30 "2011-09-30T04:49:39Z")
The only study so far that I know of that supports any scientific basis whatsoever: [Adenosine A1 receptors mediate local anti-nociceptive effects of acupuncture | Nature Neuroscience](http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v13/n7/full/nn.2562.html) Yes, there are problems with the study including a lack of sham acupuncture. But it’s a starting point. Unfortunately it’s not a clinical trial. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/31 "2011-09-30T17:53:35Z")
The teeming millions may be unaware that acupuncture works great on cows. More info [here](http://www.squidoo.com/cowacupuncture). ---
**Author:** ![luckymadon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@luckymadon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luckymadon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/32 "2011-10-03T19:40:54Z")
I’ve had a recurring problem with bad kinks in my neck for almost my entire life. After numerous trips to the doctor and consumption of various pain medications that often left me drowsy and unable to function properly in everyday life, I tried acupuncture as a last resort. I should have done the acupuncture first! After a couple of treatments the pain in my neck is gone and has not returned. Acupuncture worked for me. ( As for back pain, try sleeping on the floor without a mat for a week. That worked for me also) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/33 "2011-10-03T20:33:35Z")
Jackman, I followed a research trail behind that article to [this study](http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14767050410001668644). Again, there was no sham acupuncture involved and as far as I’m aware, the study conducted was not blind. To adequately control for extraneous variables, there could be multiple experimental groups: moxy + trained sticking, moxy alone, trained sticking alone, moxy and fake sticking, fake sticking alone, fake moxy and trained sticking, fake moxy alone, fake moxy and fake sticking, then finally a control group. An objective standard for determining whether breech birth corrections occurred and someone other than the researcher would carry out the sticking and the moxy burning, yet another person would collect the results based on an objective scale, then the researcher would be left to interpret them. The original article is correct in saying that the cows could not provide socially desirable results or demand characteristics, but what is possible is that the authors of the study had observer bias: they did not report results that did not fit their conclusions because they considered them anomalous. Even unconsciously, the researcher is applying their schemas to the data. In this case, I think the author probably believes in a chi flow, with the hip bone connected to the udder flow or some such. Otherwise I imagine the theoretical framework would be that imposing pain on a cow and they’d cite instances where giving a cow a kick fixed all sorts of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/34 "2011-10-04T17:00:41Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I think the author probably believes in a chi flow, with the hip bone connected to the udder flow Great, now I’ve got this song going through my head: _the leg bone connected to the knee bone and the knee bone connected to the thigh bone and the thigh bone connected to the hip bone and the hip bone connected to the udder flow Oh be moooved by the word of the Lord!_ Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/35 "2011-10-11T13:28:04Z")
Completely anecdotal evidence and wild theorizing here: I’ve known some acupuncturists and even gotten a treatment or two (mostly to see what it was like), and most treatments involve sticking in a few needles, leaving the patient lying down in a dark room for 20 minutes, then taking the needles out. My suspicion is that there is indeed a lot of real physical benefit from this, due to relaxation and stress-relief, but that most of this benefit comes from lying down in a dark room for 20 minutes, with the rest coming from being fussed over by someone for a few minutes at the beginning and end of the lie-down and a cup or two of placebo effect. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/36 "2011-10-11T17:31:14Z")
According to one website I can’t be bothered to advertise, sessions aren’t cheap at £40 a pop. I’m sure there are some other areas where you could pay £40 for a few minutes fuss and 20 minutes of lying down silently in a dark room. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/37 "2011-10-11T21:13:11Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > According to one website I can’t be bothered to advertise, sessions aren’t cheap at £40 a pop. I’m sure there are some other areas where you could pay £40 for a few minutes fuss and 20 minutes of lying down silently in a dark room. I’ll cut you a SDMB discount; for half of that you can come lay in my closet for 40 minutes! For only 25% more I’ll poke you with a stick for a bit too! ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031/38 "2011-10-12T00:55:39Z")
Science Based Medicine just did a post on this topic: [Legislative Alchemy III: Acupuncture | Science-Based Medicine](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/legislative-alchemy-iii-acupuncture/) In other words, no, it doesn’t work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-acupuncture-work/597031.md?page=1)