# Does Adelita Grijalva have any recourse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 14, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965 "2025-10-14T17:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/21 "2025-10-18T20:40:04Z")
It’s 2025. She should be able to be sworn in online. They can have a fancy ceremony later. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/22 "2025-10-18T20:48:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Invalid under the law 2 USC 25. > > > Oath of Speaker, Members, and Delegates > > At the first session of Congress after every general election of Representatives, the oath of office shall be administered by any Member of the House of Representatives to the Speaker; and by the Speaker to all the Members and Delegates present, and to the Clerk, previous to entering on any other business; and to the Members and Delegates who afterward appear, previous to their taking their seats. Which says nothing about special elections. Since she was elected in a special election, and not a general election, she can be sworn in by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2025, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/23 "2025-10-19T23:20:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which says nothing about special elections. Since she was elected in a special election, and not a general election, she can be sworn in by anyone. Yeah it does > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > and to the Members and Delegates who afterward appear, previous to their taking their seats. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2025, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/24 "2025-10-19T23:43:22Z")
OK, then, by refusing to do something that the law says that the Speaker “shall” (not “may”, “shall”) do, Johnson has resigned the Speakership. Yes, it’s a stupid argument. But it’s not any stupider than the arguments the Republicans are using. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/25 "2025-10-19T23:51:36Z")
Actually, it sounds more like a SovCit argument that they use against judges. His out is that the House is not in session thus she does need to be seated until it is … except it was in session on the 17th. SCOTUS has said that for a pro-forma session to count, it must be able to conduct business so a Point of Order could have been made and let the Speaker Pro-Tem deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/26 "2025-10-20T02:07:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, then, by refusing to do something that the law says that the Speaker “shall” (not “may”, “shall”) do, Johnson has resigned the Speakership. No, he hasn’t. That this arcane bit of proceduralism has resulted in a situation where the Speaker of the House can orchestrate the inability of a duly elected official to execute their duties is inane to say the least, but making up more arbitrary ‘rules’ to try to negate it doesn’t facilitate anything. The reality is that there shouldn’t be any need for ‘swearing in’; an elected official should automatically take office on the day in which the new Congress is able to come into session regardless of whether its leaders try to impede procedural norms, but this is just more evidence that ‘The Founders’ were not the prescient geniuses that textbooks tell us they were. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/27 "2025-10-23T15:51:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The reality is that there shouldn’t be any need for ‘swearing in’; an elected official should automatically take office on the day in which the new Congress is able to come into session regardless of whether its leaders try to impede procedural norms, I agree, but those are the rules we have to follow. The ridiculousness is that there are limits on who can do the swearing in. If we can have a President take the oath of office from a justice of the peace, why should it be that a Representative can only be sworn in by the Speaker? At this point, I’d love to see Grijalva publicly sworn in by Ann A. Scott Timmer (Chief Justice of the Arizona Supreme Court) and then take it to court when Speaker Johnson says, “You can’t do that!” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/28 "2025-10-23T15:56:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > At this point, I’d love to see Grijalva publicly sworn in by Ann A. Scott Timmer (Chief Justice of the Arizona Supreme Court) and then take it to court when Speaker Johnson says, “You can’t do that!” I’ll go one better and say I’d like to see Mike Johnson removed from office for refusing to do his fucking job. Every time I see his smug face issuing blatant lies out of his blow hole I like to imagine him being marched out of Congress carrying a box of personal items. What a useless turd of a human being. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/29 "2025-10-23T15:57:22Z")
Yeah, but their argument is stopping her from doing her job, while your argument is being totally ignored, if not laughed at, by those in power. Reality bites. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/30 "2025-10-23T16:00:56Z")
By the way, saying “They can’t do that!” when it is obvious that they _are_ doing that is stupid. “They are not supposed to do that” is a better phrase. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/31 "2025-10-23T16:04:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’ll go one better and say I’d like to see Mike Johnson removed from office for refusing to do his fucking job. Is it possible that the government shutdown is really all about Epstein? That it provides a cover for not swearing in Grijalva, and therefore delaying the release of the files? That does seem a bit paranoid….but these aren’t normal times. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/32 "2025-10-23T16:06:38Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Just as LBJ was considered to be president the minute JFK was declared dead. He still had to swear the oath before he was able to exercise powers as president: > Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” (Article 1, Section 1, clause 8) Which is different from the acting president point made by Stranger. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/33 "2025-10-23T16:15:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Is it possible that the government shutdown is really all about Epstein? Except right now it is Senate Democrats conducting the procedural filibuster over ACA subsidies. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/34 "2025-10-23T16:32:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Is it possible that the government shutdown is really all about Epstein? That it provides a cover for not swearing in Grijalva, and therefore delaying the release of the files? > That does seem a bit paranoid….but these aren’t normal times. That is certainly a broadly held and possibly credible thesis for why Republicans in Congress may actually want a shutdown and refuse to negotiate with Democrats holding out for continuation of the extended ACA tax credits, but there is also a more subtle objective that the corporate media establishment isn’t really covering but that historian and anti-autocracy commentator Heather Cox Richardson summarized astutely in her latest “Letters from an American” Substack post: > **[October 21, 2025](https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/october-21-2025?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=20533&post_id=176805793)** > > On this, the twenty-first day of the government shutdown, President Donald J. > _Trump boasted that the shutdown was enabling the administration to cut funding for what he continues to say are Democratic priorities, although the executive branch has no legal power to stop appropriations for congressionally approved projects, and Republican voters will also be hurt by the administration’s attempts to cut public programs and infrastructure projects. Trump called out director of the Office of Management and Budget Russell Vought, calling him “Darth Vader” as he slashes through funding and fires government workers._ In essence, with no ‘adults in the room’ even in the legislature and effectively no oversight or public attention, this regime can continue dismantling the administrative establishment at a rapid pace and in ways that will be nearly impossible for a subsequent administration to reverse or repair. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/35 "2025-10-23T16:34:26Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Which is different from the acting president point made by Stranger. No it’s not. LBJ was president as soon as Kennedy died but he still needed to take the oath of office before executing those powers, same as an elected President. Suppose on January 20th the President cannot take the oath until 12:15pm?. For those fifteen minutes he is President but cannot legally execute the office. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/36 "2025-10-23T16:36:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > this regime can continue dismantling the administrative establishment at a rapid pace Given that Trump has no problem spending money on **his** projects and programs, maybe we should say “can continuing _selectively_ dismantling”. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/37 "2025-10-23T16:53:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No it’s not. LBJ was president as soon as Kennedy died but he still needed to take the oath of office before executing those powers, same as an elected President. Suppose on January 20th the President cannot take the oath until 12:15pm?. For those fifteen minutes he is President but cannot legally execute the office. LBJ was “Acting President” the moment Kennedy was determined to be incapacitated and technically had all authority and powers of the Presidency. Being sworn in made him the President in terms of succession and counting for term limits. In terms of continuity of government during the normal election and succession cycle I believe the office of US President is held by the predecessor until the President-Elect takes the “Oath or Affirmation” in Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. This is generally done as quickly as close as possible to noon (EST) on 20 January (in the modern, post-WWII era) even if the actual inauguration ceremony is held at a later time (i.e. because 20 Jan falls on a Sunday). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/38 "2025-10-23T17:16:48Z")
These are both wrong. The President becomes president upon their term starting. Noon EST January 20th (and the term of the outgoing president ends at that time as well under the 20th Amendment) or death, resignation or removal of the previous President. In both cases, they cannot officially execute their duties until the oath of office is taken. Note this construction 25th Amendment - Section 1 In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President. Article II - Section 1 - Clause 8 Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:–“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” There is nothing to distinguish between an elected President and a VP becoming President in that clause. The procedure is the same: becoming President at a specific time or event then taking the oath in order to execute the office. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965/39 "2025-10-27T19:14:49Z")
Missed this. She filed a [lawsuit](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/arizona-mayes-grijalva-sue-house-delayed-swear-in.pdf) last week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-adelita-grijalva-have-any-recourse/1023965.md?page=1)