# Does Africa love the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051 "2009-01-13T06:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/1 "2009-01-13T06:24:08Z")
per george Bush’s speech today. America wasn’t involved in the colonisation of Africa but it did use a lot of slaves. America hasn’t interfered in African politics as far as I know and gives a lot of id. So is America loved in Africa? ---
**Author:** ![jessesheeran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@jessesheeran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessesheeran)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/2 "2009-01-13T06:36:26Z")
they love it when you come and look at the giraffes i bet /never been to Africa continue on with OP’s intended deeper meaning /interested ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/3 "2009-01-13T06:46:17Z")
Here is an email I got from a friend just back from Africa: > [@](#): > > Just got back from Africa. Obama is REALLY big in Kenya and also in Tanzania. Those were the only 2 countries we visited so I can’t tell you about the rest of the continent. I had a bunch of stickers that one of Xxx’s friend’s brother made. They were meant for Yyyy and her friends, but I had about 50 and they ended up being a huge hit with many of the people we me. Our Masai spotter put it on his knife sheaf. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/4 "2009-01-13T07:04:30Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > America wasn’t involved in the colonisation of Africa but it did use a lot of slaves. Not involved? Hello, _Liberia_? Just because the colonists were freed slaves didn’t make them any less colonists, since for most slaves, it wouldn’t have been their point of origin. Their descendants are still a major power in the country today. > [@mrpayday](#): > > America hasn’t interfered in African politics as far as I know Tell that to Patrice Lumumba. Oh, wait, you can’t, he died after a CIA-sponsored coup. Not the only one, I might add. > [@mrpayday](#): > > and gives a lot of id. \*[sic]\*Often with lots of preconditions like only using American contractors or only teaching abstinence for AIDS… > [@mrpayday](#): > > So is America loved in Africa? There’s at least one African who really despises every American government over the last 40 years, I can tell you that much. America, the country? It’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/5 "2009-01-13T07:12:38Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > per george Bush’s speech today. > > America wasn’t involved in the colonisation of Africa but it did use a lot of slaves. > > America hasn’t interfered in African politics as far as I know and gives a lot of id. > > So is America loved in Africa? id = aid ok so was Lumamba ousted by the CIA? Liberia is strange that former slaves formed its ruling class and treated the nativesbadly. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/6 "2009-01-13T12:15:41Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > per george Bush’s speech today. > > America wasn’t involved in the colonisation of Africa but it did use a lot of slaves. > > America hasn’t interfered in African politics as far as I know and gives a lot of id. > > So is America loved in Africa? Are you able to narrow this question down? “Africa” is a big place. Multiple nations, even. For many individuals in struggling parts of the developing world, the next meal takes on a larger significance than International Relations. At a government level, various folk in power seem to consider it find it useful to blame an assortment of conspiracy theories, real and imagined (or exaggerated) for their personal or national ineptitude. Such a strategy is not limited to African nations. At a personal level, I’d be surprised if there’s any more a consensus in “Africa” about how helpful or harmful the US has been than there is in the US. What little travel I’ve done in several sub-saharan African nations has left me with the impression that average people are just…average people with various opinions. And pretty darn friendly toward Americans, at that. No ax to grind; no chips on their shoulders for what happened in the past. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/7 "2009-01-13T12:25:32Z")
Well, I’m a leftie-liberal from Cape Town, South Africa, and I wouldn’t say that I or the people I hang out with love the USA in any sense. I think there is an abiding hatred for Bush Jr. and his cronies, and perhaps a sense of cautious optimism about Obama. Towards the USA as a country, well, I’d say the attitude is neither love nor hatred. I think people do admire the US for it’s achievements, but also dislike it for much of what it does - Iraq being currently the big thing. There is definitely a feeling that the US proclaims lofty ideals but fails to uphold them, particularly in its interactions with foreign countries. Because a large number of middle-class South African youth spend some time working overseas (and also because we get a lot of tourists here) everyone has their stories of ignorant Americans; I indeed have my own stories along the lines of “You can’t be from Africa; you’re not black!” and “Wow, you speak English real good for a foreigner”. I think often people here forget that such ignoramuses (ignorami?) do not represent the US as a whole. Of course, as a white South African grad student, I am not really representative of “Africa” in the sense that Dubya meant it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/8 "2009-01-13T13:03:29Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > ok so was Lumamba ousted by the CIA? Ousted and killed by a CIA-sponsored coup. That was after the CIA-supplied poisoned toothpaste didn’t get him, of course. > [@mrpayday](#): > > Liberia is strange that former slaves formed its ruling class and treated the nativesbadly. What’s strange about it? There’s nothing inherently _sanctifying_ about suffering. Knowing human nature, I quite expect the mistreated to do likewise when given the chance, from bullied schoolkids kicking the dog, on up. \*“Alas, all too human” \* ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/9 "2009-01-13T13:16:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s nothing inherently _sanctifying_ about suffering. Knowing human nature, I quite expect the mistreated to do likewise when given the chance, from bullied schoolkids kicking the dog, on up. \*“Alas, all too human” > \* Indeed. The Irish escaped hunger and polictical oppression in Ireland and moved to the US. A lot of them then had no problem whatsoever in helping in the fight against the Indians or in opressing the Blacks or at least not supporting their freedom from slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/10 "2009-01-13T13:26:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not involved? Hello, _Liberia_? Just because the colonists were freed slaves didn’t make them any less colonists, since for most slaves, it wouldn’t have been their point of origin. Their descendants are still a major power in the country today. Liberia got its independence in the 1840s, though, so it was only a colony for about 25 years. That’s still a better colonial record than most of Africa’s colonizers. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/11 "2009-01-13T14:22:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What’s strange about it? There’s nothing inherently _sanctifying_ about suffering. Knowing human nature, I quite expect the mistreated to do likewise when given the chance, from bullied schoolkids kicking the dog, on up. \*“Alas, all too human” > \* [hijack] This sort of behaviour (mistreatment of others) is not a function of having been mistreated; it’s a function of being human. Period. There was plenty of mistreatment toward fellow “Africans” on the part of Africans well before they were exposed to the outside world. There is no evidence anywhere in human history that we humans are only charitable by nature and that untoward behaviour is learned. All cultures exhibit a combination of benevolence and cruelty. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![happ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@happ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happ)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/12 "2009-01-13T14:27:21Z")
I would guess that Nigeria loves the U.S. considering all the emails I get from them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/13 "2009-01-13T15:38:05Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Liberia got its independence in the 1840s, though, so it was only a colony for about 25 years. That’s still a better colonial record than most of Africa’s colonizers. True. On the other hand: Iceland, Andorra, Thailand, The Solomon Islands - these never colonized Africa _at all_, so are better than the US in this regard. I was just correcting the facts in the OP. [QUOTE=Chief Pedant] This sort of behaviour (mistreatment of others) is not a function of having been mistreated; it’s a function of being human. Period. [/QUOTE] That’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/14 "2009-01-14T03:29:48Z")
(Referring to a post by **CP** ) > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s what I said. My apologies. I inferred incorrectly from this: (by **MrDibble)**" I quite expect the mistreated to do likewise when given the chance, from bullied schoolkids kicking the dog, on up" that you were implying only the mistreated tend to mistreat others, as if it somehow followed as a consequence of their mistreatment. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-africa-love-the-usa/481051/15 "2009-01-14T14:51:49Z")
I didn’t see the speech, but I’m guessing the gist of the idea was [Bush’s increased aid to Africa.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html) Even U2’s Bono praised him for it.