# Does all bread not contain yeast? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723 "2018-01-02T00:23:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/21 "2018-01-02T16:05:48Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Showing my Appalachian roots, there is [salt-rising](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt-rising_bread) bread which depends on bacteria (Clostridium perfringens) rather than yeast. > > I wish I could find some as good as my small town baker made. I figured somebody would bring that up. Interesting stuff, which settlers hit on making when leavening with yeast wasn’t practical. Clostridium perfringens as a leavening agent gives you pause, but appears to be perfectly safe, as noted in that article: > [@](#): > > One of the main rising agents, the bacterium Clostridium perfringens, is a common cause of food poisoning and can cause enteritis necroticans (pig-bel disease) and gas gangrene. Although disease-causing strains of C. perfringens have been isolated from salt-rising breads, there is no indication of salt-rising bread having ever caused any human disease. The baking process appears to reduce bacteria to safe levels. You make the stuff by doing exactly what you are not supposed to do to food - you let it sit out at a very warm temperature. Clostridium tolerates heat better than many other microorganisms and you are providing a nice competition free environment - under those conditions it breeds at a fantastic rate. It’s also notable that the gas emitted by Clostridium is hydrogen, rather than carbon dioxide. The rising bread isn’t a fire hazard either - the concentration of hydrogen doesn’t get high enough. There are some research projects on using Clostridium to produce hydrogen for fuel from biomass, though. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/22 "2018-01-02T17:02:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hardtack is usually pretty thin, too-- Usually thinner than a slice of normal bread, and certainly thinner than a normal loaf. Yes, but it’s not nearly matzoh or communion wafer thin. It’s made to be sturdy, so it can be carried by a soldier’s pack and not break with rough handling. The recipe I use calls for half an inch thick, which is essentially impossible to break without a tool of some sort (or soaking). And forget about biting a piece off. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/23 "2018-01-02T17:46:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and since a few folks have mentioned baking soda and/or baking powder: Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, a base. When it reacts with an acid, it forms (among other things) carbon dioxide. Sometimes a recipe will contain both baking soda and some sort of acid (such as buttermilk, lemon juice, or cream of tatar), and sometimes it’ll contain baking powder. Baking powder is baking soda that’s already mixed with one or more acids, in some sort of inert form so it doesn’t react until it’s supposed to. The two most common sorts are an acid that’ll react when it gets wet and an acid that’ll react when it gets hot; “dual-acting” baking powders use both. And some recipes like buttermilk biscuits call for both baking powder _and_ baking soda ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/24 "2018-01-02T21:26:46Z")
My dad used to make his own wine, using a recipe handed down from his own father, who came over from “the old country.” He added no yeast at all; he just crushed the grapes using a hand-cranked device and let them sit in a whiskey barrel for about a week. They always fermented. His explanation was that there was wild yeast on the grapes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/25 "2018-01-02T21:41:50Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > My dad used to make his own wine, using a recipe handed down from his own father, who came over from “the old country.” He added no yeast at all; he just crushed the grapes using a hand-cranked device and let them sit in a whiskey barrel for about a week. They always fermented. His explanation was that there was wild yeast on the grapes. That’s correct. That’s how my friend makes it, but there is an element of risk to it, if the wrong yeasts/bacteria win out. He’s had one year’s batch get completely contaminated (from several hundred dollars worth of grapes.) Took much longer than a week, though. We wouldn’t even bottle it until at least nine months later, although he uses large aluminum fermenters then racks into glass carboys and jugs. Cider is also traditionally made this way, but cultured yeasts give predictability to the process. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/26 "2018-01-02T21:46:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I took a Comparative Religions course once but I think the instructor just passed over that one. I wonder why that Comparative Religion course was not like every other Comparative Religion course. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/27 "2018-01-02T22:29:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wonder why that Comparative Religion course was not like every other Comparative Religion course. Maybe the class was held on a different night? ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/28 "2018-01-02T22:55:30Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > My dad used to make his own wine, using a recipe handed down from his own father, who came over from “the old country.” He added no yeast at all; he just crushed the grapes using a hand-cranked device and let them sit in a whiskey barrel for about a week. They always fermented. His explanation was that there was wild yeast on the grapes. Which also explains dandelion wine. For years, I wondered how you made wine from dandelions. As a young child, I knew that wine was made from grapes and that yeasts turned the sugars in the grapes into alcohol. I had eaten grapes and knew they were sweet. I tried eating the dandelion greens, which are not sweet. In fact, they are pretty much the opposite of sweet. Later, someone told me that you only used the flowers to make dandelion wine. So, I tried eating the flowers. Not as unsweet as the greens, but still not sweet by any means. I finally figured it out. The flowers do have some nectar, as evidenced by the behavior of bees. Not enough for me to taste, but enough to hold the interest of the wild yeasts. The dandelions in dandelion wine not a source of the sugar, they’re the source of the yeast! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/29 "2018-01-02T23:42:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s correct. That’s how my friend makes it, but there is an element of risk to it, if the wrong yeasts/bacteria win out. He’s had one year’s batch get completely contaminated (from several hundred dollars worth of grapes.) Took much longer than a week, though. We wouldn’t even bottle it until at least nine months later, although he uses large aluminum fermenters then racks into glass carboys and jugs. Cider is also traditionally made this way, but cultured yeasts give predictability to the process. Oh, he didn’t bottle it after a week either. After the week in the upright barrels, when it stopped foaming, he would drain the liquid out and put it in a horizontal barrel. The solids would get put in a cast iron press and squeezed to get more liquid, which also went into the horizontal barrel, which then got sealed up. It would sit in the barrel until at least springtime, when he would tap it and drink it. He only bottled what was still in the barrel (if any) when he needed the barrel to make the next autumn’s batch of wine. As far as the “element of risk” goes, yes, he was always vigilant to taste it before putting it in the horizontal barrel, but as far as I know he never lost a batch. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/30 "2018-01-02T23:50:43Z")
Yeasts are incredibly abundant on flowers and fruits - I’ve fermented cider from pressed apples without adding any yeast starter - it starts showing visible signs of fermentation within hours of pressing and you can drink it at any point between the start when it’s apple juice and the finish, when it’s dry cider. Elderflowers also are a good source of natural yeasts - the flowers steeped in sweetened water, then strained out, will cause the liquid to ferment quite vigorously (I’ve done this several times - bottling it once fermentation is underway so that the process forces CO2 into solution and produces a sparkling, mildly alcoholic ‘bubbly’ drink) Back completely on topic, I have also captured wild yeasts and made bread from them - it’s actually very easy - here’s a documented account of one such attempt: > **[Capturing And Taming Wild Yeast - Atomic Shrimp](http://atomicshrimp.com/post/2008/05/14/Capturing-And-Taming-Wild-Yeast)** > > I decided to have a go at capturing and taming some wild yeast for breadmaking. I started with a clean glass jar and three tablespoons of flour - two white and one wholemeal (the Some people add raisins to their sourdough starter to make use of the yeasts on the grape skins, but I have always found that just flour and water, left alone for a day or two, will start fermenting from the yeasts either already in the flour, or blowing around in the air. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/31 "2018-01-02T23:56:15Z")
Yeah, pretty similar method here: A week in some barrels (though plastic for him), through the wooden/iron press (beast of a thing that is!), into the tank (sorry, I meant stainless steel, not aluminum) instead of a wooden barrel. I think he would sometimes oak it with wood chunks, depending on the style. Amazing how delicious that wine could be (except for his one bad year). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/32 "2018-01-02T23:59:19Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeasts are incredibly abundant on flowers and fruits - I’ve fermented cider from pressed apples without adding any yeast starter - it starts showing visible signs of fermentation within hours of pressing and you can drink it at any point between the start when it’s apple juice and the finish, when it’s dry cider. It really depends on the apples. A number of years ago, I made some absurd amount of cider from fresh apples from my friend’s tree (40 gallons maybe?) using various yeasts, and I left one five gallon batch to naturally ferment. It took about two weeks in the glass carboy before it showed signs of bubbling. I thought it was just going to go bad. Instead, patience paid off – it was the best batch of the bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/33 "2018-01-03T01:23:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I seem to recall hearing about some obscure religious holiday were bread without yeast is consumed. I’m drawing a blank on what it is, though. (Where is that rabbi smiley when you need it!) Every day in the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/34 "2018-01-03T01:29:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, wow, I didn’t even notice that typo, but if I had, I might have kept it anyway. > > And while (some) Christians can’t take communion on Good Friday or Holy Saturday, we’re still allowed to talk about it, at least. But Jews (at least from the more conservative sects) aren’t allowed to use electronics (among many other restrictions) from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, and hence are unable to answer questions on the Internet. Catholics take communion on Good Friday, but it is from the host consecrated the day before and reserved in the Altar of Repose. Same with the Holy Saturday morning Mass but Holy Saturday after sunset is the vigil of Easter. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/35 "2018-01-03T01:39:47Z")
I was just yesterday reading about hard tack, in the extremely entertaining (for Patrick O’Brian fans anyway) recipe book, Lobscouse and Spotted Dog. Making hard tack for the British Navy was a large, mechanized, and bizarre operation in the early 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/36 "2018-01-03T02:18:01Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I was just yesterday reading about hard tack, in the extremely entertaining (for Patrick O’Brian fans anyway) recipe book, Lobscouse and Spotted Dog. > > Making hard tack for the British Navy was a large, mechanized, and bizarre operation in the early 19th century. That’s the source of the recipe I referenced above. I used a pasta machine instead of a mallet or car. I’ve made about half a dozen recipes from that book. No millers in onion sauce yet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/37 "2018-01-03T02:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **excavating (for a mind)**: > > Which also explains dandelion wine. For years, I wondered how you made wine from dandelions. As a young child, I knew that wine was made from grapes and that yeasts turned the sugars in the grapes into alcohol. I had eaten grapes and knew they were sweet. I tried eating the dandelion greens, which are not sweet. In fact, they are pretty much the opposite of sweet… But still delicious! About the same time that my Jewish friends will be eating their unleavened bread, I’ll be living almost exclusively on dandelion salad, for about a week straight. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/38 "2018-01-03T05:00:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hardtack is usually pretty thin, too-- Usually thinner than a slice of normal bread, and certainly thinner than a normal loaf. Not always, though. [These bricks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Purity1.JPG) are a staple in Newfoundland. (It’s hard to get a good sense of scale from that picture, but the things are a little smaller than an adult’s fist.) Obviously, they’re meant to be soaked before use, but if you’ve got a good set of teeth, gnawing on them is possible. (I used to enjoy them dry as a kid.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/39 "2018-01-03T06:58:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It really depends on the apples. A number of years ago, I made some absurd amount of cider from fresh apples from my friend’s tree (40 gallons maybe?) using various yeasts, and I left one five gallon batch to naturally ferment. It took about two weeks in the glass carboy before it showed signs of bubbling. I thought it was just going to go bad. Instead, patience paid off – it was the best batch of the bunch. I guess you’re right - I always make my cider from a mix of varieties including some like russets where I suspect the rough skin is a better substrate for yeasts - I also tend to use feral/hedgerow apples for their tannic content, so I expect I’m getting the maximum capture of yeasts (as well as the biggest risk of infection by something else - I have had a couple of small batches go ‘ropey’ from bacterial activity) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723/40 "2018-01-03T11:30:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wonder why that Comparative Religion course was not like every other Comparative Religion course. The instructor reclined on a sofa while delivering his lectures? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-all-bread-not-contain-yeast/805723.md?page=3)