# Does an Assault Weapons Ban make sense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130 "2013-04-08T02:36:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/201 "2013-04-19T20:46:09Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It isn’t the banning of the guns it is the irresponsibility of the owner I think should be the case where they are held responsible. If one has anything that could cause another harm it should be their responsibility to do all they can to avoid such a thing getting into the hands of others. Of course it will never be possible to stop all crime, but one should do all in their power to do all they can to prevent it getting into the wrong hands. There are, quite literally, 100’s of millions of guns in the US. If we count every gun death as a crime, that’s about 4 orders of magnitude difference between gun deaths and guns…so, I’d say that people are already doing a pretty good job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/202 "2013-04-19T20:50:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The devil is in the details. Not appreciating that makes you seem ignorant on the subject. I thought the facts were well enough established that we wouldn’t need to go over them again but: > > The difference between an assault weapon and other semi-automatic rifles are largely cosmetic or ergonomic. The critical difference between guns is the bullet they use. The gun itself is a tool for firing that bullet, and while there are some characteristics about guns that will affect the ballistics (mostly related to the barrel), the most important factor is the bullet itself, the gun is mostly just a tool for firing those bullets. > > The fact that you think the term assault weapon is meaningful in any real sense means that you don’t realize that the things that make an assault weapon an assault weapon are largely cosmetic or ergonomic. The only meaningful characteristic that has been attached to the definition of assault weapon is having detachble magazines, a common feature in many firearms. > > Are you whooshing us? You do know that machine guns are already subject to very strict regulations, right? There is almost nothing more you can do about machine guns short of outright confiscation. > > Assault weapon /= machine gun > > I’m a bit too old to get excited about tacticool guns but I think that a few of the gun control types on this baord think that people buy these guns ebcause they look scary, my impression is that the mall ninjas that buy these guns are buying them because they look cool not scary. > > You do realize how rare firearms accident are right? > > You do realize that a rule like yours would have not have prevented the Newtown shooter right? IIRC, the Newtown shooter broke into a gun cabinet to get the guns and he would have known where his mother kept the ammo when he shot his mother in her sleep. > > Are you assuming a lawless society if we didn’t restrict these things nationally? Because we don’t restrict them nationally now and we are still living ina alw abiding society the last time I checked, in fact the most law abiding society we have lived in since at least the 1950’s. Which is amazing considering we are in the midst of a prolonged recession. > > You’re right, we should ban pressure cookers!!! The Lanza case was one case where the mother apparently didn’t have the gun locked up from her son. He knew she had several and killed her in her sleep. Just a week or so ago it was on our news that a 4 year old accidently killed its 7 year old sibling, and there are more people killed for apparently little or no reason than ever before, and many are killed by guns, some stolen, some purchased by a legal buyer, and some accidently shot as in the Chaney case. I am not against a person owning a gun, but I do believe they should be responsible for how or by whom it is used! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/203 "2013-04-19T20:52:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > There are, quite literally, 100’s of millions of guns in the US. If we count every gun death as a crime, that’s about 4 orders of magnitude difference between gun deaths and guns…so, I’d say that people are already doing a pretty good job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them. Good for the responsible owners. That still doesn’t mean all people should not be held responsible for who uses their weapon. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/204 "2013-04-19T21:30:54Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Good for the responsible owners. That still doesn’t mean all people should not be held responsible for who uses their weapon. I’m not sure what you mean. There are laws pertaining to abuse already on the books. If you mean someone stealing your gun and doing harm with it, do you feel the same about someone stealing your car and doing harm with it? What about loaning a gun/car to someone who does something wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/205 "2013-04-19T21:32:09Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > The Lanza case was one case where the mother apparently didn’t have the gun locked up from her son. He knew she had several and killed her in her sleep. Just a week or so ago it was on our news that a 4 year old accidently killed its 7 year old sibling, and there are more people killed for apparently little or no reason than ever before, and many are killed by guns, some stolen, some purchased by a legal buyer, and some accidently shot as in the Chaney case. > > I am not against a person owning a gun, but I do believe they should be responsible for how or by whom it is used! The same goes for any number of other household hazards. How many children are poisoned by chemicals in the home, for instance, each year? How many drown in swimming pools, or fall? How many electrocuted? How many die in car accidents because they were improperly belted in? We have laws and ordinances to attempt to mitigate all of that and more, yet they still happen. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/206 "2013-04-19T22:03:41Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > The Lanza case was one case where the mother apparently didn’t have the gun locked up from her son. He knew she had several and killed her in her sleep. Just a week or so ago it was on our news that a 4 year old accidently killed its 7 year old sibling, and there are more people killed for apparently little or no reason than ever before, and many are killed by guns, some stolen, some purchased by a legal buyer, and some accidently shot as in the Chaney case. > > I am not against a person owning a gun, but I do believe they should be responsible for how or by whom it is used! So you think we should hold Adam Lanza’s mother responsible for what her son did with her stolen guns? Lets say she survived and she was rich. Do you think she should be charged with 25 murders? Do you think those family’s should be able to sue her because her son stole her guns and killed people with them? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/207 "2013-04-20T00:40:38Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That still doesn’t mean all people should not be held responsible for who uses their weapon. This sounds to me like punishing people for bad luck. A carefully locked away gun is of minimal use for self-defense. And I’m skeptical that all those gun cabinets given as Christmas gifts are really used. When my father in law, a good man, died, his grandchildren told us where his guns were hidden away. Fortunately they are proverbial good kids, like millions of others similarly situated. If any of them had been born with a gene for the kind of impulsiveness that leads to playing with a gun, that wouldn’t have made my father in law one iota better or worse a person. A loved one being shot with your gun (or being executed for using it in a murder!) is already a terrible punishment. Piling on such tragic bad luck with prison time is inhumane. As for my father in law, as I said, he was a good man. I just don’t think his guns made anyone safer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/208 "2013-04-20T01:25:56Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This sounds to me like punishing people for bad luck. > > . What it is- is punishing people for owning a gun. See, many anti-gun people hate and fear guns. They can’t imagine how or why you’d want one in the home. To them, it’s like an Ophidiophobe and a tank full of snakes. They can’t understand why anyone would want one of those horrible dangerous things in the house. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/209 "2013-04-20T02:45:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What it is- is punishing people for owning a gun. I don’t want to punish people for owning a gun. I’d punish a serial violator of laws forbidding sales of certain kinds of guns, although first I’d try taking away his or her license. > [@](#): > > See, many anti-gun people hate and fear guns. And so do many gun owners. Aside from hunting, fear may be the main reason people buy guns. > [@](#): > > They can’t understand why anyone would want one of those horrible dangerous things in the house. I can. Some have a sporting interest. But a big part is fear. I realize it’s not just fear of guns. Some gun owners are also fearful of knife attacks. And a whole lot of them seem to be fearful of Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/210 "2013-04-20T11:13:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. There are laws pertaining to abuse already on the books. If you mean someone stealing your gun and doing harm with it, do you feel the same about someone stealing your car and doing harm with it? What about loaning a gun/car to someone who does something wrong with it? There is a big difference between a person who leaves their car or gun in a place where it is easy for a person to get at it and one who locks the car or gun, makes sure no bullets are available, plus they must have insurance for their car, and an adult who would let their 5 year old child take their car and hit some one with it is held responsible. Of course one cannot keep some things away from some one all the time who are capable of stealing or high jacking their car, but they can be as responsible as they can be. One of course can not stop all crime, but a lot could be prevented. Years ago one very seldom heard of a teen killing anyone, there were killings but not as much as now. I admit there are more people, and more with guns; a long way from back when the gun could have to be reloaded as it was during the civil war and before that. I can’t recall any one going into a theater, shopping area, or a school, killing people they didn’t even know. I have no solution, I wish I did. I do believe that most people were responsible years ago than they are now. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/211 "2013-04-20T19:14:53Z")
[QUOTE=monavis] The Lanza case was one case where the mother apparently didn’t have the gun locked up from her son. He knew she had several and killed her in her sleep. [/QUOTE] I don’t see how requiring guns to be locked up would have helped. I would think that if you are willing to kill your mother, breaking open a lock (or simply taking the key and opening it) is not that much greater a step. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/212 "2013-04-20T23:39:18Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I have no solution, I wish I did. I do believe that most people were responsible years ago than they are now. The incidence of accidental shootings has been steadily decreasing for decades. The incidence of mass shootings has has a recent spike but the numbers have always been really low. Remember the term “going postal” those happened years ago. > **[A Guide to Mass Shootings in America](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/)** > > Here is Mother Jones’ groundbreaking database, now documenting 151 public attacks since 1982. [http://boston.com/community/blogs/crime\_punishment/2012/08/no\_increase\_in\_mass\_shootings.html](http://boston.com/community/blogs/crime_punishment/2012/08/no_increase_in_mass_shootings.html) There is nothing really new going on. ---
**Author:** ![pjnlsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e8c25b/32.png) [@pjnlsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjnlsn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/213 "2013-04-20T23:51:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The deadliest school shooting in American history was done with a Walther P22, a Glock 19, and a whole bunch of 10-round magazines. > I bet some people in Syria said similar things a couple of years ago. Well, if you think the government and bureaucracy of Syria is equivalent to that of the US, you’re confused. I mean, I understand that you want the potential to exist, but it doesn’t. Any real attempt to overthrow the US government would be detected and stopped long before it gets off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/214 "2013-04-21T00:11:20Z")
If you look at facts, whatever people are calling assault weapons kill very few people annually so there is quite a bit of upset and money being spent on a relatively small problem. In the United States in 2010 11,078 people were killed by guns. Two-thirds of those were suicides. Annually obesity and it’s related causes kill about 300,000 people in the USA. And a combination of alcohol, legal and illegal drugs and the results of using them kill between 75,000 to 100,00 people per annum. My figures come from NBC Network, National Institute of Health, Center for Disease Control and a site called “The War Against Drugs, A Common Sense Approach.” I guess if we were smart we’d listen to the First Lady. I think she’s on to something. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/215 "2013-04-21T00:46:43Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > In the United States in 2010 11,078 people were killed by guns. Two-thirds of those were suicides. This is in error. That’s the number of gun homicides. Total gun deaths were [31,672](http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states). > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Annually obesity and it’s related causes kill about 300,000 people in the USA. With guns, 11,078 and 31,672 are real numbers. With obesity, the number 300,000 is a projection which varies a lot depending on how gathered. See: > **[Is the obesity epidemic exaggerated? Yes](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2223029/)** > > The UK health secretary declared last week that we are in the grip of an obesity epidemic. Patrick Basham and John Luik believe that the problem is less clear cut, but R W Jeffery and N E Sherwood say that obesity is a growing global problem Also, people who are shot tend to lose half their lives to the bullet. People whose death is hastened by obesity tend to die at more advanced ages. And despite the impression you might get in Great Debates, the dangers of obesity get far more attention in the United States than the dangers of having a gun in the house. Dieting is a national obsession in a way that keeping guns out of homes is not. I want fewer people to die of obesity. I want fewer people to die of being too thin. I want fewer people to drown. I want fewer people to die from falling off ladders. And I want fewer gun deaths. We can walk and chew gum at the same time here. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/216 "2013-04-21T01:02:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The incidence of accidental shootings has been steadily decreasing for decades. Quickly googling, I didn’t see figures prior to 1999, but for purposes of this post, I’ll take you word for it. Two factors I see: 1. People are more honest nowadays when it comes to suicide. Successful or failed, people are now more likely to admit it was suicide than to cover it up as an accident. 2. Fewer households have guns. The best, most consistently obtained, data is from the University of Chicago General Social Survey, and they document a [30 percent decline](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all) since the 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/217 "2013-04-21T11:36:54Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Ms. Lanza definitely needs to be charged with some sort of negligence for allowing her guns to be stolen after she was murdered. It was because some one had access to her guns, before she was murdered, I would guess that she bought the guns for the protection of her family and herself, It sure didn’t turn out that way, her son ( who she must have know had problems should have not been able to get at them) Now 27 people who would still be living are dead. In such a case the gun was no protection. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/218 "2013-04-21T11:43:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How much good would an assault weapon ban do to stop bombings? I never intended to prevent a person in their right mind or under age to not own a gun (or ban them) just try to keep an unauthorized person from getting at them. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/219 "2013-04-21T16:20:45Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This is in error. That’s the number of gun homicides. Total gun deaths were [31,672](http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states). > With guns, 11,078 and 31,672 are real numbers. With obesity, the number 300,000 is a projection which varies a lot depending on how gathered. See: > [Is the obesity epidemic exaggerated? Yes - PMC](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2223029/) > > Also, people who are shot tend to lose half their lives to the bullet. People whose death is hastened by obesity tend to die at more advanced ages. > > And despite the impression you might get in Great Debates, the dangers of obesity get far more attention in the United States than the dangers of having a gun in the house. Dieting is a national obsession in a way that keeping guns out of homes is not. > > I want fewer people to die of obesity. I want fewer people to die of being too thin. I want fewer people to drown. I want fewer people to die from falling off ladders. And I want fewer gun deaths. We can walk and chew gum at the same time here. Many arguments to get tangled up in here. And you know I stand with you in supporting healthy society. There is also the loss of productivity to consider. The national obsession with dieting is not a necessarily healthy approach, nor as government-driven as gun bans. But not to go there I would say after some quick research it is very difficult to get unslanted data with all the gun hype these days. I recognize this. I also recognize the multiple hidden costs of all these choices which are nearly impossible to tease out. You still don’t need on the dot figures to see trends. In 2009 the state of MN spent 2.8 billion state funds treating obesity-related problems. Same year, 4.5 billion on drug and alcohol-related problems. In 2009 MN had 3 gun accidents, 46 gun homicides and 280 suicides. Yes, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. But let’s get our priorities and sense of urgency in order or we fiddle while Rome burns. Even most pro-gun advocates don’t realize the majority of gun violence is not directed outside of the home. Not a good thing, surely, but much less problematic to society in general than we are being led to believe. Or how about focussing on only the pockets of gun violence? Do you know that it costs the state of Illinois nearly a million dollars of rehab for each living victim of gun violence in the city of Chicago? At high rates of gun violence something’s wrong there. Worry less about old people not wanting to be a burden to their families and ending it all and more on why young people take guns into the streets and shoot each other. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130/220 "2013-04-21T19:24:20Z")
I’ll go on some about this for a moment. The problem as I see it, and as it has been presented by multiple news stories about mass gun deaths in our society, is a problem of violent youth - mainly males. Don’t most of them also have an urban background? Perhaps if we made an effort to prevent people from obtaining guns until their brains had matured and they had had a period of time to demonstrate that they were sane, responsible citizens and then allowed them possession of firearms we would see a different picture. By then it is hoped that they would have steady jobs and families and perhaps an investment in a safe social environment. There will always be some who fail to mature and feel a need to display some form of firepower or weapons of sorts to demonstrate their superiority. There will also be gun collectors and history buffs. But social change is slow and I don’t see this group of people as being the problem. Nor are ranchers, farmers and members of the traditional western gun culture. Maybe we aren’t looking closely enough at this and are painting with too broad a brush. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-assault-weapons-ban-make-sense/655130.md?page=12)