# Does an indictment, if it happens, help trump in the upcoming election, or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 23, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548 "2023-03-23T15:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/41 "2023-03-25T14:33:18Z")
Wow. Good comments slicedalone and LSLGuy. Wow. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Like the Biblical poor, they will simply be with us, an intractable irreducible burden we must drag into the future with us. I never really thought of it this way, but suspect you are correct. As they are obviously unreachable, no logic touches them and they don’t even have a casual acquantance with any facts it’s a fools errand to even try. I just hope that those that can think will continue to outnumber them. A thought about that, I don’t wish harm on them, but I suspect COVID took more of the irrational, and will continue to do so. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/42 "2023-03-25T14:36:53Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > That’s why I don’t shy away from indicting Trump Likewise. When we get to the point of being afraid of criminals, we may as well just give up. Completely. Even to the point that it causes civil war (highly, highly unlikely). When faced with choices, do what is right and let the pieces fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/43 "2023-03-25T14:41:19Z")
> [@SharltoCopley](#): > > If the broad, ad-hoc anti-Trump coalition was jolted into action in 2020 driven by his disastrous handling of the pandemic, you can imagine the mobilization level that can be easily put together if he comes close to being his party’s candidate. The problem here is the inside straight. If he gets the nomination, and Biden is killing him in the polls, what happens if Biden dies a week before the election? Maybe enough racism and fear of Kamala Harris and voters being confused and terrified of what the hell happens if you vote for a dead person causes Trump to be elected? There are dozens of unlikely scenarios like this one that end up with a very unpopular Trump elected to a second term, and the only way of assuring ourselves that can’t happen is seeing that he doesn’t get nominated. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/44 "2023-03-25T14:53:31Z")
I’m starting to think that the Democrats should put forward a fresh face for 2024. But it may be too late. How about Jamie Raskin? (don’t know how his cancer is doing though) Amy Klobuchar as running mate. Unfortunately, most would say, “Jamie who?”. That’s my ticket anyway. And slicedalone, that’s nightmare fuel, but certainly something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![SharltoCopley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sharltocopley/32/12309_2.png) [@SharltoCopley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharltoCopley)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/45 "2023-03-25T15:03:58Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > and the only way of assuring ourselves that can’t happen is seeing that he doesn’t get nominated. You see, this is now the problem with the ongoing investigation. The impending indictment is about the Stormy Daniels hush money, and not January 6 or any other ethical issue. His supporters and independents will see this as just one more clumsy attempt to get him on anything, and they’ll cling to him even tighter. I think setting the goal post at preventing him from nomination on legal grounds will be pretty injurious to any serious thinking about how the Democrats can - and should - win this election. Now, the current Democrat leadership set up is not ideal by any standard. Biden as you insinuated is old enough to be in the volatile area where on one day you have a great walk and on the second day you suffer brain hemorrhage that takes you out. This puts more stock in the VP position and requires that the VP candidate account for at least 50% of the popularity and support for the Democrat ticket. Kamala as you also said doesn’t seem to be doing the trick because people are racist or any other reason. The only way I think any of this could work out is if Kamala Harris is removed from the Democrat ticket for 2024. It’s going to be a painful and divisive controversy but it will give the Dems the necessary push and momentum required to go blazing into the election (which is the level of mobilization required). Granted, this is only possible if the Democrats manage the backlash from Kamala’s removal well (think race + women), and this is far from certain. This can easily turn into a disaster, and I think the new candidate must check really good boxes to be a just replacement. Now, who is that potential VP? If I am free to hope, I’d like to see Al Gore or John Kerry. Al Gore would be a spectacular candidate with a solid environmental agenda, and he seems like one of the Democrat ‘grown-ups’. Also, John Kerry is not that bad an option, also environmental, also a grown-up, but needs the life kicked into him. But if I am being realistic I’d name Gab Giffords, Beto O’Rourke, or even Chuck Schumer. I know all these names can sound pretty strange right now, but Kamala isn’t doing the trick popularity-wise. Fucking Andy Cuomo would have been a good option if he wasn’t a creep. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/46 "2023-03-25T15:10:54Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Like the Biblical poor, they will simply be with us, an intractable irreducible burden we must drag into the future with us. > > I never really thought of it this way, but suspect you are correct. As they are obviously unreachable, no logic touches them and they don’t even have a casual acquantance with any facts it’s a fools errand to even try. > > I just hope that those that can think will continue to outnumber them. The only way they reduce in number is by reducing the flow of highly profitable professionally produced misinformation that’s aimed at them for fun, profit, and political power. Once they don’t have a firehose of seductive falsity aimed at their face all day every day they might come to their senses, or at least newbies won’t be being born and raised in that stuff every day, so eventually the mind-damaged will die off over the next 70-ish years. Sadly, creating an effective sanitation system so clean information, like clean water, is what always comes out of the taps is probably impossible. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/47 "2023-03-25T15:27:26Z")
> [@SharltoCopley](#): > > The only way I think any of this could work out is if Kamala Harris is removed from the Democrat ticket for 2024. It’s going to be a painful and divisive controversy but it will give the Dems the necessary push and momentum required to go blazing into the election This would be the Biden ticket (which isn’t even a “ticket” if it happens) showing unbelievable incompetence and panic. It would tank Biden permanently, and for good reason. The only analog I can think of is McCain “suspending” his campaign in 2008 to run away and “save the economy”, a stupid and desperate move that painted him as utterly unprepared for any actual crisis. I mean, it’s McCain! And he does something this stupid! Forget Palin, he was over in that second. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/48 "2023-03-25T15:31:17Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > > [@SharltoCopley](#): > > > > The only way I think any of this could work out is if Kamala Harris is removed from the Democrat ticket for 2024. It’s going to be a painful and divisive controversy but it will give the Dems the necessary push and momentum required to go blazing into the election > > This would be the Biden ticket (which isn’t even a “ticket” if it happens) showing unbelievable incompetence and panic. It would tank Biden permanently, and for good reason. If this were a TV show, it feels like this is the season finale where a vacancy opens up and Kamala Harris gets nominated to the Supreme Court… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/49 "2023-03-25T15:42:29Z")
No one cares about VP. VP doesn’t suddenly matter now, it’s always been all but meaningless as far as general election voting goes. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/50 "2023-03-25T15:52:39Z")
> [@SharltoCopley](#): > > independents No. Any person legitimately identifying as an independent cannot possibly buy into his ludicrous claims of victimhood, If you mean by that word, “people who sometimes vote R and sometimes D” then most of them, i think, will view his victimhood claims with a heap of skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/51 "2023-03-25T15:53:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No one cares about VP. VP doesn’t suddenly matter now, it’s always been all but meaningless as far as general election voting goes It _can_ matter. Pence brought (more?) evangelicals to the table. Tim Kaine brought, well, nobody that wasn’t already voting for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/52 "2023-03-25T16:13:47Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > How about Jamie Raskin? (don’t know how his cancer is doing though) Amy Klobuchar as running mate. Unfortunately, most would say, “Jamie who?”. That’s my ticket anyway. Ugh! Raskin is a smart and seemingly genuine guy but most Americans have never heard of him and he is about as far from charismatic as Tim Kaine (remember him; yeah, nobody else does, either). And if Harris has gotten a reputation for running a dysfunctional Office of the Vice President, Klobuchar is positively toxic right out of the gate. Just because these people have been around for decades and are competent legislators does not make them suitable candidates for president, or indeed, necessarily a good choice for the executive even if they can be elected. This is the fundamental problem with the DNC; they are very much committed to supporting “the establishment” even if the actual candidates have the personality of school paste, and their delegate selection system—even as currently modified from. 2016–reinforces the status quo over change. That is how we ended up with Biden, who is…fine (and has been surprisingly open to progressive initiatives compared to his historical voting record) but it isn’t as if he is blazing new paths for the Democratic party or leaving some great legacy that will give the party lasting broad appeal. He’s very much a Friedrich Ebert-type of pragmatic centralist coming into an era of both increasing domestic social unrest and a multitude of international conflicts and challenges, and has done little to really prepare the nation for either. Regardless of whether Trump is indicted or not, and whether he actually clinches the GOP nomination, the rise of would-be demagogues and authoritarian figures will continue because there are a large swath of American voters who have just lost confidence in democratic institutions (not entirely without justification wrt banking deregulation and the 2007/8 financial crisis) which has primed them to accept claims of voter and electoral fraud even absent of evidence. The legal corruption and corporate ‘dark money’ campaign contributions that continues essentially unabated makes many people feel like their votes don’t matter, so throwing them at a clown who claims he can “drain the swamp” or “break up the banks” seems just as sensible as to the grandmother lecturing them about sound fiscal management. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/53 "2023-03-25T16:19:54Z")
Trump peaked in 2016. And even then, he came in second to Hillary Clinton. I don’t see any chance he can win another general election and he’ll have a hard time winning any primaries. So an indictment won’t help or hurt him as far as winning elections go. But an indictment will help him make money. Trump’s already hitting up his supporters for donations to fund his legal battle and getting indicted will spur them on. As a businessman, Trump failed to make money. As a politician, Trump failed at politics. But he’s stumbled into his niche; he’s making money by pretending to be a politician. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/54 "2023-03-25T16:31:46Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > If you mean by that word, “people who sometimes vote R and sometimes D” then most of them, i think, will view his victimhood claims with a heap of skepticism. Often a self described “independent” is someone who claims to be willing to vote for a D, but always votes for an R. The right D just hasn’t come along yet. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/55 "2023-03-25T16:33:23Z")
Maybe the “D” they want to vote for is a Douchebag, and they just haven’t found a douchiest enough one yet? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/56 "2023-03-25T16:40:39Z")
No, but I know people who say, “Oh, I’m not tied to a party, I’d vote for a Democrat if they…” and they list off a bunch of Republican positions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/57 "2023-03-25T16:50:02Z")
Hey, I say that! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/58 "2023-03-26T01:37:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, but I know people who say, “Oh, I’m not tied to a party, I’d vote for a Democrat if they…” and they list off a bunch of Republican positions. “Oh, I’m not tied to a party, I vote for a candidate from either party as long as Fox News endorses them.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/59 "2023-03-26T01:43:13Z")
A surprising number of people call themselves “independent” if they don’t donate to either party or if they live in a state that has open primaries. Despite them having rabidly partisan views. Usually on the right IME. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548/60 "2023-03-26T02:00:17Z")
True, and a big reason I’m often disappointed when the final vote tally is less than the polls indicated. “Independents” and “Centrists” telling the pollsters they’re undecided but they vote R. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-an-indictment-if-it-happens-help-trump-in-the-upcoming-election-or-not/981548.md?page=4)