# Does Any Language, When Referencing Christianity, Differeniate Between 'Church' (building) and 'Church' (institution)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 14, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570 "2023-10-14T16:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/1 "2023-10-14T16:01:00Z")
I’m asking about the distinctin between _ **A** _ church, as in a building or a local congregation (“First Presbyterian Church is hosting a fundraiser for…”), and _ **THE** _ church, as in the institution (“The Presbyterian Church is facing a crisis of leadership…”). Obviously English doesn’t differentiate the two, nor does Spanish (“iglesia” seems to be the default for both), nor French (“église”), and in fact, I’m guessing this is the standard across all European languages. Does any language recognize a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/2 "2023-10-14T16:12:17Z")
I think it’s more that _Christians_ use the two terms interchangeably and so other languages do too when translating those terms. So in Hebrew the Christian church and institution are both כנסייה, but no one would call the Islamic faith a “misgad” or the Jewish faith a “bet kneset”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/3 "2023-10-14T16:14:23Z")
I think Byzantine Greek, also Medieval Latin, have the ἐκκλησία / βασιλική distinction (ecclesia/basilica) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/4 "2023-10-14T16:36:01Z")
When I’ve been in Paris, I’ve noticed that the maps distinguish between Catholic churches and Protestant churches. Catholic churches were listed as “église”, and Protestant churches were “temple”. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/5 "2023-10-14T16:40:33Z")
I’m seeing Bible verses (for example, [Acts 9:31](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%209%3A31)) where the same word is rendered “churches” in some translations (presumably referring to local congregations) and “church” in others (presumably referring to all Christians collectively—at that time “the Church” wouldn’t have been a formal institution in the way it became later). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/6 "2023-10-14T17:25:37Z")
But a basilica is not just any church building, only a particular type of it. In architectural terms, it’s a long rectangular building with several naves; in canon law terms, it’s an honorific that is awarded by the pope to a church building that is not a cathedral (i.e., the seat of a bishop) but still more important than an ordinary parish church. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/7 "2023-10-14T17:30:54Z")
Esperanto has _preĝejo_ (literally, “praying place”) for the building and _eklezio_ for the organisation. But then again, Esperanto is an artificial language, so it may not count for the OP’s purposes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/8 "2023-10-14T17:34:05Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > But a basilica is not just any church building, only a particular type of it. True. I was thinking of the architectural form, not the Catholic designation. But yes, not every church was a basilica. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/9 "2023-10-14T17:50:07Z")
In Spanish as in English “iglesia”, church, is used for naming a specific physical building/structure, an organized denominational grouping (Roman Catholic, Methodist, Orthodox, Pentecostal), and the universal mystical body concept referred to in the scriptures and creeds. As in English, we then use specific terms like congregation or parish to refer to a local body of the faithful, or terms like chapel, temple etc. to characterize specific buildings . ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/10 "2023-10-14T17:52:26Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > nor does Spanish (“iglesia” seems to be the default for both) I believe that Spanish does differentiate: the building is _iglesia_, while the organization is _Iglesia_ (capitalized). I think it is the same in French with _église/Église_ and with Italian _chiesa/Chiesa_. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/11 "2023-10-14T17:59:25Z")
Yes but that’s more of a matter of capitalization rules based on whether the noun is being used as a common noun or proper noun – “ **a** church” vs. “ **the** Church” where the word “Church” stands as shorthand for the proper name of an organization (Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Church, etc.). However even when used for organizations it reverts to lowercase if used generically i.e. “las iglesias protestantes”. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/12 "2023-10-14T18:23:43Z")
Yes, I admit that capitalization rules are arbitrary, like in English the names of languages and nationalities (French, Dutch) are capitalized, and the capitalization is kept even when the use of the word has nothing to do with languages or countries (like in French kissing and Dutch courage: why capitalize the first word and not the second of the expressions? I personally think neither French nor Dutch should be capitalized in those cases, but people do). So I would not read too much significance into it, but the OP asked for differences, and capitalization is one in French, Spanish and Italian, but not in German, where Kirche, by virtue of being a noun, is capitalized in both cases. Not really a major differentiation, granted, but it is the best I can offer. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/13 "2023-10-14T18:29:58Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Yes, I admit that capitalization rules are arbitrary, like in English the names of languages and nationalities (French, Dutch) are capitalized, and the capitalization is kept even when the use of the word has nothing to do with languages or countries (like in French kissing and Dutch courage: why capitalize the first word and not the second of the expressions? I personally think neither French nor Dutch should be capitalized in those cases, but people do). Whereas “polish sausage” would just be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/14 "2023-10-14T18:33:08Z")
Reminds me of Donald Tusk, who when accepting the post of President of the European Council stated that he would “polish his English”. As it was said in a press conference and not given in writing the journalists had a lot of fun capitalizing “polish”. ETA: For clarity, Donald Tusk is Polish. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/15 "2023-10-15T00:15:27Z")
Same word 教会 kyoukai for both meanings in Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/16 "2023-10-15T00:30:54Z")
Are there any _other faiths_ where it is common to, in any language, refer to the place of worship and the institution by the same name? Or is that unique to Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/17 "2023-10-15T00:59:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Are there any _other faiths_ where it is common to, in any language, refer to the place of worship and the institution by the same name? I don’t know enough about other religious institutions to answer, but there are examples of secular institutions that fit. The word “school” (or the name of a particular school) can refer either to a particular place (building or campus) or to the institution that occupies that place. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/18 "2023-10-15T05:52:07Z")
Parliament could be another in casual use, although formally is usually Parliament House or Houses of Parliament. It probably also applies to things like shops - ‘I’m going to the shop’ could be to the building that is a retail store, or to visit the retail business it houses. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/19 "2023-10-15T09:59:13Z")
I think it is very common that the name of a building would be used metonymically to denote the institution that it houses. Standard examples are the White House for the American presidency, the Kremlin for the Russian presidency, or the Pentagon for the Department of Defense. In some cases, the institution even formally adopts the name of the building - an example would be the London-based foreign policy think tank Chatham House. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570/20 "2023-10-15T10:47:21Z")
In many religions, there is no overarching organisation for the entire faith akin to a Christian church; each local place of worship would, legally, be an autonomous self-funded institution. In such cases, the word for the building would also refer to that building as an institution, and it wouldn’t be odd, for instance, for Muslims to say they’re donating money to “their local mosque” or for Jewish people to say they’re donating to “their local synagogue”. As another example (not a religion, but close): In freemasonry, the word “lodge” can denote both the local chapter of Freemasons as an institution and the building in which they meet - although in the latter sense, the word “temple” is also in use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-language-when-referencing-christianity-differeniate-between-church-building-and-church-institution/991570.md?page=2)