# Does any other country need American military protection any more? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032 "2009-08-28T15:22:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/61 "2009-09-01T07:09:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Does any other country need American military protection any more? You make it sound like an act of altruism rather than the self interest it plainly is. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/62 "2009-09-01T13:00:34Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > You make it sound like an act of altruism rather than the self interest it plainly is. Why can’t it be both? Why can’t the pretection that the American military provides support both itself and its allies? If you defend you and your wife from a mugger, does that make you a selfish person? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/63 "2009-09-01T13:20:09Z")
A capitalism-based empire doesn’t rely on occupation as such, just a meaningful presence - it reassures Wall Street and removes any ambiguity from the minds of other empire building nations. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/64 "2009-09-01T13:38:06Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > You make it sound like an act of altruism rather than the self interest it plainly is. What other kind of interest is there besides self-interest? 😕 If I don’t take care of myself/self-interest, how can I take care of those I care about? (expanding circle: myself, family, loves, friends, city/state/country/world) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/65 "2009-09-01T13:39:04Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > You make it sound like an act of altruism rather than the self interest it plainly is. Well, that’s another debate . . . Thing is, in the previous age of colonial imperialism, the common people of Britain, France, etc., got some personal economic benefit out of their country’s having an empire, even if it was just a good manufacturing job that existed because the colony was a captive market for the manufactured goods. (The upper classes always got much **more** out of the arrangement, of course.) But in America today, it’s hard to see what economic return the average American is getting out of the American military hegemony he funds with his taxes. We’re protecting our economic competitors, in many cases. And it’s the average American, not the average Taiwanese or South Korean, who pays those taxes. So from the average American’s p.o.v. it really **does** look like altruism. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/66 "2009-09-01T13:47:19Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > Is it really…? Do you know anything about European politics or do you make things up as you go? Sure mate, I know a thing or two about European politics. Its my daily exposure as such. Do you just object blindly to points of view you don’t like or is there some other Lefty angle going on? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/67 "2009-09-01T13:48:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But in America today, it’s hard to see what economic return the average American is getting out of the American military hegemony he funds with his taxes. We’re protecting our economic competitors, in many cases. And it’s the average American, not the average Taiwanese or South Korean, who pays those taxes. So from the average American’s p.o.v. it really **does** look like altruism. Yep, the original post-Marshall Plan dynamic has altered significantly - the biggest shift being, of course, the demise of communism. The determining factor for a US presence now is the strategic relevance of the host country, ‘strategic’ now usually meaning natural resources. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/68 "2009-09-01T13:49:21Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > US message board I assumed you were a US citizen. Well, your quote and reply was to me. And I would note there is a fair bloody number of non-Americans on the board. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/69 "2009-09-01T13:55:10Z")
[quote=“Sam\_Stone, post:60, topic:508032”] I think some of the people in this thread have a very simplistic, almost cartoonish view of how countries deal with each other. [quote] Quite so. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter who happens to be expansionist at this moment, because the world is not static. It changes, and how it changes depends an awful lot on hard diplomacy, overt and subtle threats, and force projections. If the U.S. military vanished tomorrow, it doesn’t necessarily mean a war will break out the next day. But countries will push harder on each other jockeying for power. Countries that aren’t expansionist now may decide to do so once they realize their actions are no longer constrained. Agreed, and skipping to a quibble: > [@](#): > > Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait because he was convinced that the U.S. didn’t have the stomach for a fight. I believe that rather more fairly, Saddam convinced himself that the US had given a wink and a nudge regarding Kuwait. > [@](#): > > And here we are again, telling ourselves that peace is at hand so long as we just disarm ourselves. If that happens, there will be similar results. Well mate, on the other hand there are heavy costs to the US for maintaining its present enormous war machine. There is a wee difference between stepping back a bit to save current dollars and ‘disarming.’ (And I think the US would have been daft post WWI to have maintained a full out war machine on the odd chance of another European adventure. Really daft. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/70 "2009-09-01T14:01:56Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Yep, the original post-Marshall Plan dynamic has altered significantly - the biggest shift being, of course, the demise of communism. > > The determining factor for a US presence now is the strategic relevance of the host country, ‘strategic’ now usually meaning natural resources. That’s a pretty narrow reading of strategic. The US has a strategic interest in having air bases in Central Asia to support and re-supply troops in Afghanistan, not because there are any crucial natural resources in Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. The US has a strategic interest in East Asia, namely Korea and Japan, not because of natural resources, but because of political and military alliances and balances of power. Natural resources may be one element to a country or region having strategic relevance, particularly for the Middle East, but it’s probably to far to say that’s the sole usual basis. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/71 "2009-09-01T14:13:34Z")
I don’t disagree, hence my using the conditional ‘usually’. I would disagree with any suggestion a US presence is altruistic. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/72 "2009-09-11T16:06:54Z")
I would reckon there is some concern for Taiwan. In the Persian Gulf, the tiny Emirates want us to protect them from Iran, formerly (& perhaps again) Iraq, & perhaps each other. Not that we would care a whit if not for oil. We’re involved with Kurdistan somehow. But yeah, we can probably get out of Spain, Germany, the UK, Japan, & maybe the Philippines at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/73 "2009-09-11T16:54:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But yeah, we can probably get out of Spain, Germany, the UK, Japan, & maybe the Philippines at this point. The US has a pretty small presence in Spain and the UK, mainly either as a joint NATO function, stopping off points for other European bases, or for deployment into Iraq/Middle East and Afghanistan. The US has an even smaller presence in the Philippines, which consists of special forces Soldiers helping to train the Philippine army in counter-insurgency and doing humanitarian work. All of the large American bases there closed in the early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032/74 "2009-09-12T07:18:52Z")
Thanks Camus. Ignorance fought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-country-need-american-military-protection-any-more/508032.md?page=3)