# Does any other religion have an Osamma bin Laden? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581 "2003-02-12T15:44:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/41 "2003-02-13T15:31:02Z")
I think Paisley DOES have clear terrorist connections: > [@](#): > > “Paisley told reporters…“the British government must learn from all this that we simply can’t take anymore, and we will not take anymore.” He continued, “We will have a third force of men on the streets of Northern Ireland to protect our people.” Paisley refused to give details about his proposed “third force.” Prior to Nov. 18 he insisted that “private armies have no place in society,” indicating the government would firmly oppose any attempt by Paisley to field an extra-governmental security force.” (Facts on File, 1981) > [@](#): > > “Police announced Dec. 25 that the day before they had arrested a dozen members of the so-called ‘Third Force’ organized by the Rev. Ian Paisley…The men, who were accused of operating illegal road blocks in County Fermanagh near the border with the republic, were released on bail. A Protestant spokesman connected with the Paisley organization charged that the arrests were politically motivated, and said they would not deter the Third Force from continuing its efforts.” (Facts on File, 1981) > [@](#): > > From the 1960s Paisley strove to become the leader of extreme Protestant opinion in Northern Ireland by organizing street protests and rallies. These activities led to frequent confrontations with the authorities and a brief prison term for unlawful assembly in 1966. That year he established the Ulster Constitution Defence Committee and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers, which served as paramilitary adjuncts to his churches. > [@](#): > > His methods also have been consistent: a combination of parliamentary opposition and extra-parliamentary street protest. He has been identified with shadowy private armies such as the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), the Third Force, and the Ulster Resistance. > [@](#): > > "The U.S. State Department announced Dec. 21 that it had invalidated the visa held by the Rev. Ian Paisley…(He) had planned to make a speaking and fundraising tour in the U.S. in January 1982, but the State Department said in cancelling the visa that Paisley’s “presence in the United States is prejudicial to U.S. public interests.”…Paisley said Dec. 21 that the U.S. action was a “denial of free speech.” He “utterly repudiated” the contention that he had encouraged violence and claimed that the treatment he had received “contrasts sharply with the absolute freedom with which Irish-American supporters of the IRA come and go from this country without hindrance.” (Facts on File, 1981) Anyway, here’s an example of some of his religious bigotry: > [@](#): > > “In October 1988, Paisley was beaten and carried unceremoniously out of a European Parliament meeting in Strasbourg, France. The occasion was a speech made by Pope John Paul II before the Parliament. As the pope began his message, Paisley stood and held up a red sign painted in black letters with the words “John Paul II ANTICHRIST.” Paisley shouted, “I refuse you as Christ’s enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine.”” (Cloud, 1999) and here is one of his acts of terrorism: > [@](#): > > At a Ballymena horse fair, Paisley threw a bible at the head of Donald Soper, a visiting ecumenical Methodist. (London Sunday Times Insight Team, 1972) [http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2936/excerpts/paisley.html](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2936/excerpts/paisley.html) [http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2936/excerpts/third.html](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2936/excerpts/third.html) [http://www.lois.itgo.com/political/irkp.htm](http://www.lois.itgo.com/political/irkp.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/42 "2003-02-13T15:51:04Z")
What I am getting from all of this, to get back to the subject at hand, is that it is actually surprisingly difficult to find parallels to the Osama pattern. Tamerlane’s modern examples are closest, I think. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/43 "2003-02-13T15:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\*I think Paisley DOES have clear terrorist connections: \*\* I don’t think the Third Force was ever shown to be a terrorist organisation. Mounting the odd road-block, and parading while waving firearms licences, doesn’t really qualify. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\* . . . his religious bigotry . . . \*\* I’ll happily concede that > [@](#): > > \*Quoted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\*At a Ballymena horse fair, Paisley threw a bible at the head of Donald Soper, a visiting ecumenical Methodist. (London Sunday Times Insight Team, 1972) \*\* That would be perfectly normal behaviour at a Ballymena horse fair 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/44 "2003-02-13T15:58:03Z")
Yes, UDS it might be a strectch to call the third force a terrorist group, but other groups that Paisley set up like the UPV is strongly believed to of carried out bombings while it was still under his command (in the sixties) ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/45 "2003-02-13T16:08:39Z")
Paisley actually set up the Ulster Constitution Defence Committee (UCDC) which, admittedly, had links with the UPV. But this is not to say it was the same organisation. And neither the bomb in Silent Valley or the NIE substation in Belfast were officailly attributed to the UPV, or shown to be connected to Paisley in any way. I don’t feel any real inclination to defend the man or his actions anymore, so lets leave it at that. But I do I think the idea he is on a par with ObL is a little loco. Apologies for the hijack once again. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/46 "2003-02-13T16:17:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > **I don’t feel any real inclination to defend the man or his actions anymore, so lets leave it at that. But I do I think the idea he is on a par with ObL is a little loco.** Hear hear! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/47 "2003-02-13T16:57:17Z")
Guy Fawkes WAS a terrorist in his day, but it’s been ages since anybody in England took him very seriously. He long ago became a figure of fun, and an excuse to set off fireworks. I forget the wag who first said this, but I’d like to shake his hand: “Guy Fawkes was the only man who ever entered Parliament with honorable intentions.” ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/48 "2003-02-13T17:24:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by newcrasher \* > \*\*Who are the closest countrparts to OBL in other major religions? \*\* Christianity has [Eric Robert Rudolph](http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/rudolph.htm). No word yet on when Georgia will start bombing North Carolina until they give him up. ---
**Author:** ![BURNER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@BURNER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BURNER)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/49 "2003-02-13T18:08:26Z")
There are the salem witch trials as well. If you were accused, then you were tortured untill you confessed, at which time you were executed for practiceing withcraft. The christians at the time didnt wage any kind of open war with any one. It was the church wageing war on unpopular citizens. ---
**Author:** ![luke\_warm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@luke\_warm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luke_warm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/50 "2003-02-13T22:37:17Z")
in which case, the church was probably more similar to the taliban than al quaeda in those times. as for tomas de torquemada and the spanish inquisition. it is now thought by some historians that much of what has been written about the excesses of the inquisition was exagerrated by the english in order to present spain in a bad light. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581/51 "2003-02-15T02:41:47Z")
Hey don’t knock the non-celebrating of Christmas!!! Had Washington celebrated Christmas, as opposed to using that day to cross the Deleware River back to Trenton and surprise the celebrating Hessians, his Continental army would have been destroyed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-any-other-religion-have-an-osamma-bin-laden/154581.md?page=2)