# Does ANYBODY ACTUALLY read james Joyce for Pleasure? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 26, 2000, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287 "2000-12-26T21:02:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/41 "2000-12-28T10:18:20Z")
I read ‘A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man’ voluntarily…well, most of it. ---
**Author:** ![Emperor\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@Emperor\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emperor_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/42 "2000-12-28T10:56:23Z")
Funny how life works isn’t it? Just this evening, I was contemplating switching my major from Biology to English. I can now say with very little doubt that it will be a cold, cold day in hell before that happens. 🙂 Actually I’m glad. It was only a matter of time before I came to my senses, you guys just help to speed it along, is all. It’s not that I dislike literature (I’m currently reading Troilus and Criseyde), it’s just that I’m way too thick to pick up on any subtleties or hidden meanings. It’s a pain really. (The fact that my spelling and grammar skills are sub-par may have something to do with it also. ;)) In that vein; > [@](#): > > The mistake he makes once is an unnecessary hyphen: “I hope that most people will choose something in-between.” > > The mistake he makes twice is to write “i.e.” when he means “e.g.” > > Though these mistakes are unforgivable–I would have returned the ms. without marking them and not accepted it again till he’d found them and fixed them Please tell me you’re kidding. Why do I have a horrible feeling you’re not? [sub]Sigh. 9 to 5 never looked so good…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/43 "2000-12-28T16:18:07Z")
Um, no, I wasn’t kidding. But I wouldn’t be in a position to return the ms. unmarked: I’m not a literature professor. If I _were_, however, I’d imagine that when a student of English literature has reached the doctoral-dissertation level, such standards would not seem unreasonable. (That’s right: despite rackensack’s bizarre [if flattering] assumption, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a professional literato. I never finished highschool, and I have never been “taught” Joyce: any reading of Joyce I have ever done has been purely for pleasure. And I’ll agree with Dr.P that taking on _Finnegans Wake_ as a linear slog is just _asking_ for trouble. Sample it; absorb it; accumulate it. It took Joyce seventeen years to write it: what makes you think it should take you any less time to understand it?) ---
**Author:** ![rackensack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rackensack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rackensack)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/44 "2000-12-28T20:15:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr.Pinky \* > \*\*“Professional literati” … nobody’s ever call me _that_ before. (I like it!) Would you be referring to the $900 I made in poetry over the last twenty years, or the cool $250/year I make as theater critic for my beloved hometown paper? > > I’m just a guy that enjoys codes. > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lissener_ > **(That’s right: despite rackensack’s bizarre [if flattering] assumption, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a professional literato. I never finished highschool, and I have never been “taught” Joyce: any reading of Joyce I have ever done has been purely for pleasure.** I apologize for the unwarranted assumption on my part; I plead the lateness of the hour and reading and replying in haste. _Something_ I thought I read convinced me that one or more of the participants in the conversation was a lit prof, but I’m damned if I can figure out, in the clear light of day, what it was. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lissener_ > **It took Joyce seventeen years to write it: what makes you think it should take you any less time to understand it?** I don’t think it should necessarily take me less time to understand it than it took Joyce to write it (though I don’t necessarily think it ought to take as long or longer, either). I have felt insufficiently repaid for the effort invested in _FW_ so far, unlike _Ulysses_; the parts I _have_ understood have seemed a lot less fun than _Ulysses_. That was what I meant to convey in my post last night. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Pinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dr.Pinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Pinky)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/45 "2000-12-28T20:33:26Z")
Corvus, my friend, you hang in there w/ Bio. I myself was planning on Bio/Chem, until Walt Whitman came along and ruined my life. 🙂 Science: makes sense, pays money. Lit: well, you fill in the blanks. Like I said, I haven’t found this line particularly remunerative. But hey – the babes dig it, and with modern technology, I could be phoning in from The Lorelei in Islamorada for all anybody knows. ::looks out the windows at **not** the Keys…:: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Pinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dr.Pinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Pinky)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/46 "2000-12-28T20:36:44Z")
rackensack, I’ll list some of the good bits when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Call\_Me\_Tech-Mex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@Just\_Call\_Me\_Tech-Mex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Call_Me_Tech-Mex)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/47 "2000-12-29T03:02:14Z")
For a couple of days running we’d read it outloud for laughs. Does that count as pleasure reading? ---
**Author:** ![Emperor\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@Emperor\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emperor_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/48 "2000-12-29T03:17:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > **Um, no, I wasn’t kidding. But I wouldn’t be in a position to return the ms. unmarked: I’m not a literature professor. If I _were_, however, I’d imagine that when a student of English literature has reached the doctoral-dissertation level, such standards would not seem unreasonable.** Oh, you’re talking doctoral level. I can agree with that. I’m only a lowly undergrad who somehow wasn’t taught any grammar at all, despite 12 years of high school. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Any doctoral stuff is years away. Hopefully I’ll be better prepared by then. I think when I get back to school I’ll have to pick up some Joyce. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/49 "2001-02-13T20:57:45Z")
Once I saw a video of the Clancy Brothers onstage actually haing fun with _Finnegans Wake_. They were doing the old song that inspired the title, and opened with a little skit. They spill whiskey on him and he sits up in his coffin and exclaims, “Beforre, I was Finn . . . and now I’ll be _Finn again!!!_” ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/50 "2001-02-14T18:05:16Z")
Any of you eggheads ever read Laurence Sterne’s “Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy”? Apparently it was one of Joyce’s primary influences. On top of that, it was a much more interesting read. Great book. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/51 "2001-02-15T03:25:26Z")
Just this evening, I went to Second Story Books at Dupont Circle, Washington DC, and after looking there for years, finally found it: _Finnegans Wake_. When I came out of the shop I had a parking ticket. So whatever I saved by buying it secondhand had a $20 markup… anyway… I opened _FW_ and began reading out loud. On page 3, I read: > [@](#): > > **Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you’re going to be Mister Finnagain! … Hahahaha, Mister Funn, you’re going to be fined again!** When I read that, I just burst out laughing out loud. It was so true. Mister Funn is fined again! You gotta give credit to Joyce for writing a very fun book that is just laugh-out-loud hilarious. When I got home I read it to my kids and they caught on right away and laughed (at the same time they wondered: What’s got into him???). I said to myselse this stuff is just nuts! It’s a riot! Sorry if you just don’t get it. Whares yar shems of yewmermann? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287/52 "2001-02-15T20:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > **Whares yar shems of yewmermann?** So no one’s having a go at this, is it? Why then ile fit you. **Whares** –“wares”, obviously, since the book is a commercial commodity, after all. But also, _whare_ is Maori for ‘house’, which goes to answer the question: it’s in the house that Finnegan built! **yar** –Persian for ‘friend’: I’m teasing you in a friendly way. **shems** –means ‘sun’; also Shems was the spiritual guide of the mystical poet Jalal al-Din Rumi. **yewmermann** –recalls the whispering yews from the “Circe” chapter of _Ulysses_. Merman, but also _mer_ ‘sea’ + mann (suggesting Joyce’s contemporary Thomas Mann), also implies the Irish sea-god Manannan mac Lír, who was metempsychosed in _Ulysses_ by the poet George Russell, alias **AE**. Stephen Dedalus borrowed 5 pounds from him, and said: **A.E.I.O.U.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-actually-read-james-joyce-for-pleasure/47287.md?page=2)