# Does anybody believe in Evolution ?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367 "2004-12-17T16:51:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/41 "2004-12-17T21:17:56Z")
I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/42 "2004-12-17T21:20:05Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. > I will not… Cheat. You used cut and paste. Stay behind one more hour and type each line out again. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/43 "2004-12-17T21:22:44Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > I will not compose posts while doing several other tasks, causing me to make numerous spelling and grammar errors which totally undermine the point of said posts. Did **Gaudere** make you write that as a punishment? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/44 "2004-12-17T21:24:32Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > The pronoun “I” is always capitalized in English, as, I believe, in most other languages. Much as I hate to spoil a good grammar rant, I have a minor nitpick. As far as I know, English is unique in capitalising the first-person singular nominative case pronoun. I certainly know of no other language in which the equivalent of “I” is capitalised. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/45 "2004-12-17T21:45:05Z")
I think the OP came and went. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/46 "2004-12-17T21:45:36Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Much as I hate to spoil a good grammar rant, I have a minor nitpick. As far as I know, English is unique in capitalising the first-person singular nominative case pronoun. I certainly know of no other language in which the equivalent of “I” is capitalised. Certainly none of the other languages I speak or have studied. None of the Romance languages do it; nor do any of the many languages that don’t use alphabets with capital letters. I seem to recall there being some reason for it - “I” was easily confused with other words in Early Modern English or something along those lines; it’s not the same as the capitalization of the Spanish _Usted_ or Italian _Lei_ (“you”) that’s done out of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/47 "2004-12-17T21:48:05Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > I think the OP came and went. You mean, masturbated like a mother fuck at showing up those damn evil-utionists, and then took a shit on our board? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/48 "2004-12-17T21:50:20Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > You mean, masturbated like a mother fuck at showing up those damn evil-utionists, and then took a shit on our board? Something like that, yeah. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/49 "2004-12-17T21:54:21Z")
If he’s gone, then I’ll lighten the mood with a quote: > [@Terry Pratchett](#): > > “I don’t think I’m related to any apes,” said the Senior Wrangler thoughtfully. “I mean, I’d know, wouldn’t I? I’d get invited to their weddings and so on. My parents would have said something like, ‘Don’t worry about Uncle Charlie, he’s supposed to smell like that,’ wouldn’t they?” > _–The Last Continent_ ---
**Author:** ![Myakot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@Myakot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myakot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/50 "2004-12-17T21:55:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Did **Gaudere** make you write that as a punishment? 🙂 Gaudere’s forms of punishment are much more sadistic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/51 "2004-12-17T22:50:21Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > I will leave the more biologically minded dopers to deal with evolution, but I do wish to be of some help. I feel your are quite right to denigrate your former education insitution, which failed you in more ways than simply not instilling a proper respect for the scientific mention, as evidenced by your OP. I would like to volunteer to help you, one sentence at a time. I think the OP quite successfully resisted being brainwashed in the areas of grammar, spelling and logic as well as evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/52 "2004-12-17T22:50:59Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Cheat. You used cut and paste. Wemph, iths werry hahd oo ype wif yorr footh een yorrmouth. Ayone goth kethip? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/53 "2004-12-17T23:34:51Z")
The OP may not have vanished on us; he or she just may be in the habit of logging on only once or twice a day. I know I’m liable to vanish for the weekend and technically, I shouldn’t be on-line now, since I’m waiting for a call. **JustWrightin** , I’m about as hard-core a Christian as you’ll find around here, and I suppose you could say I “believe in” evolution in the same sense that I believe in the notion that oxygen is necessary for my body to continue living or that a complex process involving an internal combustion engine saw me through rush hour traffic from my job home. My belief in those notions is entirely different from my belief in God. Most notably, they can be scientifically proven. Cut off my supply of oxygen, and, based on what’s happened to untold numbers of other human beings through the centuries, and I will die, although I’d prefer you not conduct the experiment on me. Each process involved in my car getting me from work home can also be proved and demonstrated, and none of it involves “magical sky pixies” to use a term I’ve heard atheists use to describe people who believe in a deity. Evolution is, simply, the most simple, elegant testable way we have of accounting for the way human beings, plants, animals, and all other living things came to be the way they are. If a theory comes along which suits the known facts better, evolution, too, will be discarded and, I suspect, with a lot less of a fight than Creationism. Evolution, to me, is not incompatible with Christianity. Indeed, the more I know of evolution, biology, cosmology, and science in general, the more I am struck with awe and wonder that God should create such a beautiful, intricate, fascinating mechanism. Consider it a watch versus a sundial, if you will, or a fugue compared to a simple melody. As a Christian, I am commanded by Christ, Himself, to love God with all my mind, as well as all my heart and soul. To me that means I am to use my mind to ask questions, look at puzzles, and enjoy solving them, just as I assume God enjoyed creating them. Christ seldom if ever gave simple answers; instead, He tended to answer questions with questions and encourage those around Him to _think_! If you’re a Biblical literalist and a Young Earth Creationist, I ask you to read the first two chapters of Genesis and answer one simple question: did God create birds before or after He created man? Yes, that is a trick question, and I will need you to cite which chapter and verse you’re basing your answer on. Here at the Straight Dope, especially in Great Debates, we’re rather big on cites. You see, it’s not simply a matter of knowing what you do or do not believe; around here, you’re expected to be able to explain why you do or do not believe something. Four years of hanging around here, having my faith questioned and learning from the beliefs of others have strengthened my faith immeasurably, even though I freely admit there are things I can’t fully explain. I wouldn’t _want_ to believe in a God who could be fully explained by man, even though I gather there are some folks who’d be satisfied with nothing less. Around here, most folks do “believe in evolution” in that they accept evolution as the most likely explanation for how somethings came to be the way they are, and I’m pretty sure that includes most of the Christians. We can tell you why, if you’ll let us. You’ve got yourself off to an interesting start here, and I wish you luck. If you’ll let yourself indulge in a bit of awe and wonder at the world, you’ll find this is a marvelous place to waste an evening! It can even be faith-affirming. Good luck, and peace be with you. As for me, I’ll be vanishing for a while. That phone call I was waiting for came in while I was composing this. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/54 "2004-12-18T01:06:21Z")
I hate the word “belief”. It means: [list=A] [li]A set of views, accepted as correct, that are based on evidence.[/li][li]A set of views, accepted as correct, _without the need for evidence_.[/li][/list] Part of the problem, and a major influence on your religious views, is a failure on the part of the clergy to distinguish between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/55 "2004-12-18T07:05:36Z")
Clearly, we need a control subject, i.e. someone who went to the same school as the OP and was subject to the same “brainwashing”. If he has a clue what evolutionary theory entails, it lends evidence to the notion that the OP… doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/56 "2004-12-18T13:04:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > [You usually see Jay, although J. would obviously be correct, too.](http://www.annonline.com/interviews/961009/biography.html) Whoosh 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/57 "2004-12-18T13:41:49Z")
> [@JustWrightin](#): > > I was taught Evolution at school completely brain washed with the stuff from i think 3rd grade all the way to 10th grade off and on, If you actually think about it there is no possible way that. There could be such a thing, Can anyone prove to me that there is, That nothing became something with a big boom of nothing. Yes that has to be more logical then some people. Also all this bacteria becoming animals and animals forming into more sophisticated animals in which their case we are animals. The evidence would mostly be from things like DNA and genetics - stuff you’d learn at university if you studied biology. (Just a guess since I only did some biology up to the 10th grade). > [@](#): > > I really rather not be called a close relative of an ape. If an idea is unattractive, it doesn’t disprove it. e.g. say I thought the idea of non-Christians suffering in hell eternally wasn’t a nice thought, it wouldn’t prove that hell doesn’t exist… or say I didn’t like the idea of pollution leading to possible global warming that doesn’t disprove global warming, etc. > [@](#): > > Also if noone can prove me other wise, then wouldn’t this be your belief ? Then why should i be forced to have to sit through it with no options to my belief? well anyways if any of you guys would like to try to tackle this question please try to. Thank You for reading… Well a majority of scientists agree that the theory of evolution is the best explanation for how species of animals and plants came into existence… and I guess the education system wants to keep you up to date with the latest science. By the way, even if you want to be a creationist, to debate with evolutionists competently so that they take you seriously, or if you want to see how evolution and creationism compare (in case you are interested in truth) you need to learn about evolution! Since non-evolutionists are often religious people, they can learn about their own explanations about origins in their own time. (in addition to learning about evolution for the reasons I said before) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/58 "2004-12-18T14:15:11Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > My very\_very\_basic\_and\_probably\_wrong knowledge of what the current theory is is that it didn’t come out of nothing, but came out of itself. That the universe is circular and it’s end and beginning is the same event. To use the north-pole analogy if you carry on walking after the north pole you are going south. If you go back past the beginning of the Universe you are at the other end and going the other way. The universe has existed forever and is yo-yoing. At the moment, the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the Universe doesn’t end, it just keeps expanding forever. It’s 13.7 billion years old, +/- 1%. The possibility probably remains that it’s older than that and we can’t measure it, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that’s the case. The Universe doesn’t appear to be dense enough to one day slow down and collapse back into itself. > [@Myakot](#): > > Gaudere’s forms of punishment are much more sadistic. **Gaudere** is a dish best served cold. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JMS\_CCT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@JMS\_CCT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JMS_CCT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/59 "2004-12-18T14:49:51Z")
It’s interesting that so many posts claim Darwin’s theory of evolution to be a provable scientific fact, when the theorist himself lamented on his death bed, that not one of his theories could be proven scientifically. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367/60 "2004-12-18T15:02:23Z")
I think the **OP** has bailed (shocked, I’m _shocked_ at such behavior), but on the chance he/she is lurking, here’s my take: Evolution ain’t got a dog in this fight. Evolution says nothing about God. It explains “how,” but is not interested in “why.” As other have said, it is a testable, thesis which explains the presence and diversity of life on this planet. It is not a religion. Unfortunately, some people find that the tenets of evolution rub up against the literal word of the bible and feel compelled to pick a fight, framed on religion. To them, and you, I say :“suck it up.” If you don’t want to “believe” in evolution, then by all means, don’t believe in it. If you want to teach your kids “creation science” or “intelligent design” or any other religious claptrap masquerading as science, then by all means do so. If you want to teach other people’s kids the same, please feel free-in Sunday school. However, if you have a problem with the public school system teaching orthodox science, the problem is of your own making. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-believe-in-evolution/280367.md?page=4)