# Does anybody have any idea what this Jewish shtetl/Russian place name might be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799 "2010-03-09T02:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/1 "2010-03-09T02:37:29Z")
I’m helping a friend do genealogical research. His great-great-grandfather was a Yiddish speaking Russian Jew who came to America around 1885. Around WW2 one of the old man’s granddaughters compiling an oral history wrote down something to the effect of this: “Born in shtetle of Hallize Goub, Teheragoff, Russia, in 1865” I’m not at all sure of the spelling as it’s somewhat blurry and he only has a photocopy of it. I’ve done all manner of searches for _Hallize Goub_ (including changing the h to k and as one word and with truncation and the like) and for Teheragoff (which I assume to be the larger place/administrative district perhaps- I’ve changed ff to v and several spelling combinations- again, it’s hard to read) but no luck either way. So here’s a random shot in the dark (since Hail Mary doesn’t seem appropriate): does anybody have any ideas what modern place names _Hallize Goub_ or \*_Teheragoff_ may refer to? (I’ve tried looking for that family as well but that particular branch of the family was Ashkenazi but their surname seems only to exist in metro NYC, so God knows what it was before Ellis Island; my friend is just curious now as to what general region of Russia they may have come from.) Thanks for any info. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/2 "2010-03-09T02:45:29Z")
PS- If you know anything about family histories, the fact it was said to be Russia could mean it was Prussia, Poland, Romania or anywhere in eastern Europe- i.e. “it probably wasn’t Guam or Australia but anywhere else is fair game”. If there’s any place in eastern Europe that might sound like this please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/3 "2010-03-09T03:01:48Z")
PBS, ["Searching for a Shtetl](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shtetl/search.html): > [@](#): > > “Where Once We Walked” by Gary Mokotoff and Sallyann Amdur Sack.(Publisher: Avotaynu) > In this book you will find a listing of all shtetls, towns and villages in Eastern Europe (as well as parts of Russia where Jews lived before World WarII). Included in these lists is the latitude and longitude of each community as well as books which refer to each place (and where to find these books.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/4 "2010-03-09T03:06:13Z")
Could it be Goloskov/Holoskove/Goloskovo in the Ukraine? My other suggestions would be Chelodz, in what’s now Poland but was then Russia, Helitch, which is in the Ukraine, but at the time was in Austria, Kalish, in Austrian Poland, or Kalis, in Ukranian Russia. Something that might be useful is the Shtetlseeker, which is here: [http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/](http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/) It’s a database with a listing of Jewish communities in Eastern Europe, along with alternate spellings and jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/5 "2010-03-09T03:06:37Z")
Oh, and did you try Wiki’s [list of shtetls](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shtetls)? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/6 "2010-03-09T03:14:31Z")
Or the [Shtetl Finder Gazetteer](http://books.google.com/books?id=K0Q8FBnnPNcC) on Googlebooks? ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/7 "2010-03-09T03:14:45Z")
“Hallize” sounds like Galicia, see here [Galicia (Eastern Europe) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Eastern_Europe%29) . In Russian popular culture this area is mostly known in connection to WW1. But note also the mention of large emigration in late 19th century. Anyway, so the root-word might show up all over the place over there. “Goub” sounds like “guba” which has some archaic meanings as a topographic feature. Something water related, not sure. It may also have meanings I am not aware of in a Slavic language other than Russian. My Russian searches for Tegeragov or Tegeragoff are not turning up anything. Then again, maybe the language in that place was not Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/8 "2010-03-09T03:22:58Z")
Thanks for all suggestions. (I also considered Halaszi in Hungary, for Hungary did have pogroms and his family tradition is they came here due to a pogrom). Thanks for _Guba_ especially- I’m sure that’s not coincidence. I’ll run these by him. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/9 "2010-03-09T03:25:41Z")
Maybe [Torgovitsa](http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~shtetm~-1056486) in Ukraine? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/10 "2010-03-09T03:28:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Or the [Shtetl Finder Gazetteer](http://books.google.com/books?id=K0Q8FBnnPNcC) on Googlebooks? Blessed art thou among Dopers, I think I found it in that. Ternovka- south of Kiev- there’s one called Hanlovka- which while it doesn’t sound exactly like it when you factor in an American raised granddaughter trying to figure out the words of a Yiddish speaking old man and then the hard to read handwriting could easily be that. More important is that one of the surnames is very similar. (This family name was Gordseski [seems extinct now] and one of the surnames was Gorodetski which is very close.) ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/11 "2010-03-09T03:29:19Z")
I focused on the “goub” part of the name figuring that it was short for gubernia, which would have been a province in the Russian Empire. I would guess that someone giving the name of a village or settlement would have added the name of the province. Alas, couldn’t find any gubernias called Teheragov. But I wonder if it would have been Chernigov? губ. техерагов/губ. чернигов? The city, (now Chernihiv, Ukraine) did have a reasonably large Jewish population around that time. Best I can do. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/12 "2010-03-09T03:35:03Z")
Terekhovka, southern Ukraine? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/13 "2010-03-09T03:38:36Z")
Also check out the gazetteer in the [Encyclopedia of Jewish Life Before and During the Holocaust](http://books.google.com/books?id=tumlOiOZvSUC&pg=PA1315), which I left open for you at the Ternovka page. Do let us know when you finally pin it down, we’ll none of us sleep else. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![James\_Bloom-Scheff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@James\_Bloom-Scheff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Bloom-Scheff)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/14 "2016-11-18T20:24:10Z")
Did you ever find where this is? One of my great great (maybe a few more greats) Aunts married a Harry Gorodess (formally Gorodetsky) from “The Village of Hallize Goub, Teheragoff, Russia”. If you are interested in learning more, contact me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/15 "2016-11-18T20:33:14Z")
> [@James\_Bloom-Scheff](#): > > Did you ever find where this is? > > One of my great great (maybe a few more greats) Aunts married a Harry Gorodess (formally Gorodetsky) from “The Village of Hallize Goub, Teheragoff, Russia”. > > If you are interested in learning more, contact me. What can you tell us here? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/16 "2016-11-18T21:41:15Z")
This thread brought tears to my eyes. Shabbat shalom. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/17 "2016-11-19T06:49:11Z")
> [@James\_Bloom-Scheff](#): > > Did you ever find where this is? > > One of my great great (maybe a few more greats) Aunts married a Harry Gorodess (formally Gorodetsky) from “The Village of Hallize Goub, Teheragoff, Russia”. > > If you are interested in learning more, contact me. I’m suspicious this is a scam. See he quoted the OP’s placename letter for letter, but thats not the modern name, so if he did know a damn thing, he’d have to be at least a single letter different ?? However, Gorodetsky does locate his relative as a Mountain Jew… In the caucuses … Ukraine, Georgia … ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/18 "2016-11-19T07:14:39Z")
The Gorodovski name did exist at Ternivka. Well it did exist until the holocaust, at least See [http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/database/photos/556/victims\_list.pdf](http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/database/photos/556/victims_list.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/19 "2016-11-19T07:48:49Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > I’m suspicious this is a scam. See he quoted the OP’s placename letter for letter, but thats not the modern name, so if he did know a damn thing, he’d have to be at least a single letter different ?? > > However, Gorodetsky does locate his relative as a Mountain Jew… In the caucuses … Ukraine, Georgia … From the OP “Around WW2 one of the old man’s granddaughters compiling an oral history wrote down something to the effect of this”. It’s perfectly reasonable that the poster is a distant relative with data based on the same 70 year old writing down of decades older oral history, and stumbled across this thread due to Googling those place names. Not saying it isn’t a scam, but the place names being identical would be expected. Note that he’s not saying he has information about the place, he could simply be offering to share his genealogical data with a distant relative. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-have-any-idea-what-this-jewish-shtetl-russian-place-name-might-be/531799/20 "2016-11-19T18:35:16Z")
I vote for no scam. There is a WWII [Draft registration](https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SJS-ZBM?mode=g&i=4966&cc=1861144) for a Harry Gorodess, born in 1887 in Russia.