# Does anybody make actual Penrose tiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 25, 2004, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618 "2004-11-25T11:25:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/1 "2004-11-25T11:25:27Z")
This is a rather geeky question, I’m afraid. I’m in the process of resecroating, which is going to involve some tiling. I thought it would be neat to use a [Penrose tile](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PenroseTiles.html) pattern rather than the usual boring checkerboard or whatever. Nothing too garish, just two subtly contrasting colours. (For those that don’t know, Penrose tiling produces patterns that look symmetrical, but actually aren’t. Unlike wallpaper, which will match up if you shift it a set distance side to side/up and down, a Penrose pattern will not superimpose on itself however much you shift it.) So, does any enterprising tile manufacture sell tile of the correct shape? I have tried Googling, and although other people seem to have had the same idea, I have not been able to track down a supplier. The alternative (hours spent with a protractor and a tile cutter) doesn’t bear thinking about… ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/2 "2004-11-25T11:26:44Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I’m in the process of resecroating… This is reduced-caffeine-speak for “redecorating”, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/3 "2004-11-25T11:45:13Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I have not been able to track down a supplier. The alternative (hours spent with a protractor and a tile cutter) doesn’t bear thinking about… A friend of mine runs a hat shop with a penrose tile pattern on the floor - it did indeed involve many hours of cutting, etc; fortunately she had created a template to work from but, even so, it didn’t come out exactly right… [picture with some of the floor showing](http://www.fabhatrix.com) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/4 "2004-11-25T11:54:55Z")
I was thinking more of small mosaic tiles, suitable for a wall, which would be even more fiddly than cutting floor tiles (those look like vinyl/lino tiles, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/5 "2004-11-25T12:00:12Z")
One thing I have found is that apparently Mr Penrose is quite protective of his tiles: > [@](#): > > Penrose also sued the Kimberly Clark Corporation over their quilted toilet paper, which allegedly resembles a Penrose aperiodic tiling (from [here](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Tiling.html)) Looks like that might be a stumbling block. Not that he could stop someone from making their own, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/6 "2004-11-25T12:02:54Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > (those look like vinyl/lino tiles, right?) Yeah, just regular vinyl, maybe even from offcuts she had around. Now I think about it, she was aiming to do some ‘Penrose’ kitchen tiling at her home, but If she did I know she’ll have cut it all by hand… ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/7 "2004-11-25T12:09:25Z")
Not as impressive, of course, but you could always simply _paint_ (or better yet _stencil_) the pattern onto a normal ceramic surface. Or, a heavy duty cutter might allow you to do a stack of tiles at once. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/8 "2004-11-25T17:52:01Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > does any enterprising tile manufacture sell tile of the correct shape? I was told by a friend (who appears to have done a fair amount of research) that Penrose tiles cannot be freely manufactured - they would be subject to royalties. Nothing would stop you from making tiles for your own use. You might want to talk to some pottery-savvy friend who could help you make molds and fire the tiles. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/9 "2004-11-25T17:53:31Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > So, does any enterprising tile manufacture sell tile of the correct shape? I have tried Googling, and although other people seem to have had the same idea, I have not been able to track down a supplier. The alternative (hours spent with a protractor and a tile cutter) doesn’t bear thinking about… The demand being what it is for pentile cut ceramic tile you are on your own. The obvious solution is to cut your own. This will require a wet diamond saw available at the BBDIY or tile store. Lay out your pattern and make a jig to hold the tile in the proper position(s). Allowing for grout joints, a small error can probably be tolerated. You can use tiles of various colors to create a masterpiece with a bit or two of patience! ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/10 "2004-11-25T18:51:24Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > The demand being what it is for pentile cut ceramic tile you are on your own. You mean you don’t think there’d be much demand? :dubious: Looks like a DIY job then… once I have a lot more spare time! There are various shapes you can use, of course… [this](http://www.jcmax.com/~jwt/images/penrose.gif) is quite a neat pattern, using two kinds of parallelogram, but I think the best ones are the “arrow and dart” shapes… like [this](http://www2.spsu.edu/math/tile/aperiodic/penrose/bigcartwheel.gif). Interestingly, that same site shows how to cut the arrow and dart shapes from [pentagrams](http://www2.spsu.edu/math/tile/aperiodic/penrose/penrose3.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/11 "2004-11-25T18:55:20Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I was told by a friend (who appears to have done a fair amount of research) that Penrose tiles cannot be freely manufactured - they would be subject to royalties. Actually I’m wondering about the legal situation here. Can Penrose legally lay claim to a simple geometric shape, like a parallelogram with specific interior angles? Sounds a bit optimistic to me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/12 "2004-11-25T22:36:12Z")
I don’t have a source for Penrose tiles, but I love the idea. I’ve always wanted to tile a bathroom with interlocking [Escher lizards](http://www.geocities.com/reignababy/ESCHER_Lizards_1939.jpg); all white, except with a few green ones scattered around. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/13 "2004-11-25T22:43:47Z")
A single product or end project for yourself is not likely to cause concern. Manufacturing for others and/or resale is strictly prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/14 "2004-11-25T23:27:18Z")
There was a picture of actual Penrose tiles in an issue of Scientific American and they told where you could get the tiles. I had the issue years ago, but I no longer have it and I can’t remember how long ago it was. Penrose tiles were discussed several times in Mathematical Games, but this was a regular article. I’m afraid I’m not very much help. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/15 "2004-11-26T00:03:43Z")
On the legal issue, Penrose has licenced a company called [Pentaplex](http://www.pentaplex.com/defaultflash.asp) to produce puzzles based on the tiling. They also appear to produce legitimate [tissues](http://www.pentaplex.com/paper/) using the design. However, there’s no mention of them doing kitchen tiles. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/16 "2004-11-26T00:51:27Z")
That website mentions some benefit associated with using the Penrose pattern on tissue. I wonder what they are referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/17 "2004-11-26T12:40:29Z")
As I recall, using Penrose patterns on toilet tissue etc. means that the paper wraps around more evenly and keeps the roll’s cross-section more circular. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/18 "2004-11-26T13:05:59Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > As I recall, using Penrose patterns on toilet tissue etc. means that the paper wraps around more evenly and keeps the roll’s cross-section more circular. I suppose that makes sense, as the pattern would never line up on successive layers. Plus I guess it’s ideal for people with asymmetric butts. [sub](Ass-ymmetric? Never mind…)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Gaius.Cornelius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gaius.Cornelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaius.Cornelius)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/19 "2004-11-26T19:01:19Z")
Unusual tile patterns are a pipe-dream of mine. I rather like Hirschhorn Tiling, see: [http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/symmetry/radspir1.htm](http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/symmetry/radspir1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-make-actual-penrose-tiles/276618/20 "2004-11-26T19:46:54Z")
> [@Gaius.Cornelius](#): > > Unusual tile patterns are a pipe-dream of mine. > > I rather like Hirschhorn Tiling, see: > > [http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/symmetry/radspir1.htm](http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/symmetry/radspir1.htm) Cool 🆒 I’m not sure I could handle those colours early in the morning, though… Based on the responses to this thread, I reckon there would be a market for weird and wonderful tile shapes. Print out brochures with some of those tiling patterns and they’d sell themselves to geeks everywhere! University maths departments could tile entire lecture-theatre floors in them! Professors’ shower stalls would never be the same again! Get to it, somebody!