# Does Anybody not use Antivirus Software? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323 "2012-03-30T21:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/61 "2012-04-04T02:37:26Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > That’s a very large chunk of computers running a 10 year old operating system that’s not really being supported anymore by the vendor, full of holes and ancient OS design elements. As an IT professional, the part of this that really makes me bristle is the majority of those are XP Professional, which means they ARE still getting security updates/patches/support until 2014 sometime. There is just no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/62 "2012-04-04T04:47:06Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Maybe I’m being a sucker. It’s not a ton of money, though, maybe $80 per year for peace of mind. There are plenty of free antivirus solutions out there. They’re just as good as the ones that charge. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/63 "2012-04-04T04:49:53Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > There are plenty of free antivirus solutions out there. > > They’re just as good as the ones that charge. They can be almost as good. But be very very careful to make sure you’re not downloading malware disguising itself as AV. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/64 "2012-04-04T04:52:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I don’t think it’s very likely that someone running Windows 7 with no virus protection will ever get a virus, no matter how careless they are. It’s still, to this day, not being targeted with the same ferocity that XP was and is. There are plenty of them, we have probably had several hundred virused win7 machines come through my shop. Granted, lots of old xp boxes come through too, but win7 is nowhere near as invincible as you imply. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/65 "2012-04-04T04:55:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They can be almost as good. But be very very careful to make sure you’re not downloading malware disguising itself as AV. I will take AVG free over any Norton or Mcaffe home user offering. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/66 "2012-04-04T05:09:09Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > There are plenty of them, we have probably had several hundred virused win7 machines come through my shop. Granted, lots of old xp boxes come through too, but win7 is nowhere near as invincible as you imply. But is the malware specifically written for Win7, or just utilizing pre-existing WinXP-compatible malware? In particular, how much Win64 malware are you aware of? The reason I wonder is that Microsoft touted the 64-bit system of Vista as being much harder to hack. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/67 "2012-04-04T08:30:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > While what you say is accurate enough, I’ve been hearing this for years. Decades possibly. > > When and if Macs start getting targeted with viruses, I’ll consider screwing around with an antivirus program for my Mac. In the unlikely event that my machine gets hit with one in the interim, I can restore a full backup from Time Machine with minimal loss of data. Unless, of course, that virus has infected your Time Machine backup. All it is is a mounted drive with loads of hard links, not some kind of special magical faerie pixie land. Personally I run MS Security Essentials on all my Windows machines. OS X and Linux machines go the same way as the others in this thread. I last got a virus on my Amiga 500 in about 1993. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/68 "2012-04-04T11:25:05Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Unless, of course, that virus has infected your Time Machine backup. All it is is a mounted drive with loads of hard links, not some kind of special magical faerie pixie land. Yeah, OK. I’m still not losing sleep over it. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/69 "2012-04-04T13:05:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This is functionally equivalent to saying “I have never got cholera, despite the fact I drink water in 3rd-world countries all the time. Drinking water isn’t as dangerous as people allege. By the way, I totally boil any water before I drink it.” NoScript isn’t an anti-virus product. There are a good number of examples in this thread of people whoi aren’t running anti-virus and have not for a considerable length of time. Ergo, the threat is not as large as it’s made out to be. [QUOTE=Mangetout] I wouldn’t be at all surprised if as many as half the no-AV folks already have active malware infections on their machines that they aren’t even aware of - not all forms of malware announce themselves, or do anything immediately destructive - some of them just sit there quietly performing distributed computing tasks such as DDOS attacks, spamming, cracking, etc. It’s entirely possible (reasonably likely, even) for an unprotected machine to get quietly compromised, regardless of how carefully you believe you’re treading. [/QUOTE] Modify that first statement from no-AV folks to Apple folks and see if it resonates the same way in your head. Both are equally unprovable statements. If viral scans three or four times a year over the course of ten years has not turned up any viruses, what good would an actual anti-virus product do? For that matter, if some users never run anti-viral scans, how can they make the determination that they are in less danger than I? ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/70 "2012-04-04T13:39:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I wouldn’t be at all surprised if as many as half the no-AV folks already have active malware infections on their machines that they aren’t even aware of It depends what you mean by AV software. A lot of people who claim not to use AV software actually do scan their computer regularly with something like Malwarebytes or an online AV. What they mean is they don’t use preventative, always-on AV software. And if it gets past the scans, it wouldn’t have been caught in the first place, right? I don’t use an always-on AV anymore because I found they were causing more problems than they solved. I’d use one again if I thought it would work properly. I do generally run firefox with no javascript, no flash, and no add-on or extension at all except for adblock. I only turn on javascript or flash on a trusted site, in which case I have to rely on adblock to protect me. And I reguarly scan with Malwarebytes, which hasn’t found anything so far. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/71 "2012-04-04T14:11:16Z")
Not unless you consider Mac OS to be anti-virus software. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/72 "2012-04-04T14:40:16Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > It depends what you mean by AV software. A lot of people who claim not to use AV software actually do scan their computer regularly with something like Malwarebytes or an online AV. What they mean is they don’t use preventative, always-on AV software. And if it gets past the scans, it wouldn’t have been caught in the first place, right? Not right - or at least, not at all necessarily - the things a bit of malware is doing when it infects a computer are probably not all that similar to the things it does once it’s in place and has covered its tracks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/73 "2012-04-04T14:42:52Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I don’t think it’s very likely that someone running Windows 7 with no virus protection will ever get a virus, no matter how careless they are. It’s still, to this day, not being targeted with the same ferocity that XP was and is. You may have a point - I hadn’t really considered the permissions architecture of Win7 - I was (perhaps hastily) assuming the “don’t need any AV, because I’m careful” thing to be a bit of an old-school notion, and therefore aligned more with the machines that are in fact most susceptible. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/74 "2012-04-04T14:48:02Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > Modify that first statement from no-AV folks to Apple folks and see if it resonates the same way in your head. Both are equally unprovable statements. Not really sure what your point is - do Apple users claim immunity because _they’re careful_? I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > If viral scans three or four times a year over the course of ten years has not turned up any viruses, what good would an actual anti-virus product do? For that matter, if some users never run anti-viral scans, how can they make the determination that they are in less danger than I? Again, not sure what you’re on about here. Scans don’t necessarily do the same thing as active protection (and active protection can prevent things that later scans may have difficulty in even detecting). It sounds almost like you’re saying there’s no such thing as malware at all. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/75 "2012-04-04T15:15:20Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > NoScript isn’t an anti-virus product. There are a good number of examples in this thread of people whoi aren’t running anti-virus and have not for a considerable length of time. Ergo, the threat is not as large as it’s made out to be. NoScript is certainly an anti-virus product, among its many other functions. It’s ridiculous to brag about using particularly effective virus protection by claiming it’s not virus protection at all. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/76 "2012-04-04T15:16:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not right - or at least, not at all necessarily - the things a bit of malware is doing when it infects a computer are probably not all that similar to the things it does once it’s in place and has covered its tracks. Very true: the easiest place to catch a malware infection is at point of entry–once it’s installed, it’s in a position to block or fool post-hoc anti-virus scans. Not all virus programs do this, mind you, but many of the more pernicious ones do. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/77 "2012-04-04T18:16:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They can be almost as good. But be very very careful to make sure you’re not downloading malware disguising itself as AV. Agreed on not downloading malware, but it’s not like paying for something protects you from malware or a scam. Microsoft Security Essentials and AVG are the two best-known free anti-virus programs out there. They both work very well. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/78 "2012-04-05T01:22:21Z")
I just came across this article, for the Mac operators who are feeling secure… [Flashback trojan reportedly controls half a million Macs and counting](http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2012/04/flashback-trojan-reportedly-controls-half-a-million-macs-and-counting.ars). > [@](#): > > We have been covering the Mac Flashback trojan since 2011, but the most recent variant from earlier this week targeted an unpatched Java vulnerability within Mac OS X. That is, it was unpatched (at the time) by Apple—Oracle had released a fix for the vulnerability in February of this year, but Apple didn’t send out a fix until earlier this week, after news began to spread about the latest Flashback variant Me? Windows 7 with MSSE. I’ve had a couple of warnings over the last year, but no infections. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/79 "2012-04-05T17:33:00Z")
Smug alert to Apple fans: [600,000 infected Macs are found in a botnet](http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2166228/600-infected-macs-botnet) ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323/80 "2012-04-05T17:55:04Z")
Hey, did anybody hear about 500,000 or so Macs in some kind of Trojan botnet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-not-use-antivirus-software/617323.md?page=5)