# Does anybody take seriously the notion of "the American Dream?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 21, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389 "2017-02-21T15:51:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/1 "2017-02-21T15:51:16Z")
If so, how do you define it? Are we the only country with it’s own specific dream? ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/2 "2017-02-21T15:57:13Z")
[QUOTE=Are we the only country with it’s own specific dream?[/QUOTE] Sorry about the “we.” **Is the** United States\*\* the only country with it’s own specific dream?\* \* That’s better! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/3 "2017-02-21T15:57:15Z")
The millions of immigrants who come here take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/4 "2017-02-21T16:04:34Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > Sorry about the “we.” And you’re not sorry about the “it’s”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/5 "2017-02-21T16:11:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The millions of immigrants who come here take it seriously. Cite ? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/6 "2017-02-21T16:14:40Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Cite ? Me. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/7 "2017-02-21T16:21:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Me. And that _American Dream_ is… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/8 "2017-02-21T16:25:40Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > If so, how do you define it? Are we the only country with it’s own specific dream? There’s a [Wikipedia article on the “American Dream.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream) Near the end of the article is a discussion of (and link to an article on) the “Chinese Dream.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/9 "2017-02-21T16:28:57Z")
I have a “Canadian Dream.” It includes hockey and beer. Possibly bacon. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/10 "2017-02-21T16:31:30Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > And that _American Dream_ is… Freedom from discrimination based on my ethnicity (not so much religious freedom because I’m a practicing atheist). Education and economic opportunities that would not otherwise be available to me. Freedom of speech and movement. Not having to live in a socially oppressive society. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/11 "2017-02-21T16:32:10Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I have a “Canadian Dream.” > > It includes hockey and beer. Possibly bacon. Canadian bacon? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/12 "2017-02-21T16:43:32Z")
For years the _American Dream_ was personified as home ownership. If you owned your own home than that was tangible evidence that you were achieving the _American Dream_. That was debunked during the recent great recession. Alternatively, being college educated has also been a trait of achieving the _American Dream_, but even that illusion is being challenged by ever increasing tuition costs and levels of student loan debt. The problem is that society, government, etc. has always felt that it was necessary to aid people in achieving the _American Dream_, which resulted in programs like the Community Reinvestment Act, the Housing and Community Development Act, and institutions like FreddieMac and FannieMae. Add to that the variety Federal student loan programs and we have built the American Dreams of many people on sinking sand. The _American Dream_, if there is one, shouldn’t be an entitlement program, or a subsidized loan program. It shouldn’t be a handout. It should be something that people sacrifice for, people work extremely hard for. The _American Dream_ isn’t something that everyone is promised or achieved, but everyone should have the opportunity to pursue. Just not everyone is committed to the hard work that is required to achieve it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/13 "2017-02-21T16:48:34Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Canadian bacon? Strangely, there’s no such thing as Canadian bacon in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/14 "2017-02-21T16:50:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Freedom from discrimination based on my ethnicity (not so much religious freedom because I’m a practicing atheist). > > Education and economic opportunities that would not otherwise be available to me. > > Freedom of speech and movement. > > Not having to live in a socially oppressive society. None of those are unique to the US, of course. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/15 "2017-02-21T16:57:17Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > None of those are unique to the US, of course. True. That’s why I first moved to Canada. 🙂 But where I came from, it was a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/16 "2017-02-21T17:30:18Z")
But what the heck IS “The American Dream?” Can it be whatever I want it to be? Has it always some vague notion that was defined personally? I think I recall Fannie Mae using the expression to promote home ownership before the recent crapping out of our economy. Has it always been a marketing tool? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/17 "2017-02-21T17:38:42Z")
One of the core components of the American Dream is that the opportunity for the American Dream is open to everyone in American society. This has always been more aspirational than factual which is why America makes such a big deal over “First Black President/First Female President” stuff. It’s that, due to the meritocratic underpinnings of American society, any person of any circumstances can aspire to any position if they only are willing to put in the perseverance/hard work/sacrifice. The dark side of the American Dream is that it’s often inverted and used to blame any person for not succeeding that the only reason for their failure is a lack of perseverance/hard work/sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/18 "2017-02-21T17:52:15Z")
yes, so long as it’s still based on reality. Too many people (the “temporarily embarrassed millionaires”) seem to think it means all opportunities are all equally available to all people all of the time, and that just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/19 "2017-02-22T01:17:38Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Strangely, there’s no such thing as Canadian bacon in Canada. I noticed that last time I visited. Ooooops – I forgot to translate that for you. I noticed that last I visited, eh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389/20 "2017-02-22T04:31:44Z")
The American Dream changes, kinda like Homer Simpson’s “lifelong dream.” Pre-WW2 it was to get rich through ingenuity and hard work (if you were white). Post-war, it was simply a nice house and a couple of kids for everyone (again, if you were white). I’d say that version morphed to be more inclusive and added “go to college” in there somewhere in the 1970s. The average person no longer thought much of becoming a captain of industry, less so in these days of outsourcing industry to other places. The current American Dream is best exemplified by Dire Straits’ “Money for Nothing.” Win the lottery or get famous via wearing yoga pants on Instagram, or playing games on Youtube. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-take-seriously-the-notion-of-the-american-dream/780389.md?page=2)