# Does anybody understand how Mexico will pay for the wall? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144 "2017-01-25T14:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/61 "2017-01-25T20:30:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I presume these are legal workers, and with jobs above minimum wage, and the tax is on remittances sent to any country. > > It would seem that a tax limited to remittances sent by illegal residents just to Mexico would be very easy to get around. First of all, how are you going to know it’s being sent by an illegal resident? Second, even if you could figure out who’s illegal, most illegal residents should be able to find some legal resident to send the money through. And if it’s just remittances sent to Mexico, you could transfer them through some third country. At the time the Cayman Islands tax on remittances was implemented there was no minimum wage. One has since been implemented. The tax applied to anyone (citizen, ex pat worker, illegal immigrant, ANYONE) sending money internationally by a remittance service (Western Union, Moneygram, and similar) but not to funds sent overseas by bank wire transfer or other means. This does mean that such a tax hits those who cannot afford to wire large sums of money on an irregular basis but instead send smaller remittances on a regular basis. Such a tax may not be as highly targeted as some might like, but remittances form the US to Mexico are about US$20 billion US per year and rising. A 2% tax on that would be about $400 million per year. Over ten years that would be US$4 billion in tax just on the remittances to Mexico, on the low end of what some estimates are for building Trump’s wall. Make it instead a 1% tax on ALL such remittances to any foreign country and it would bring in more. And this is just one possible financing stream. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/62 "2017-01-25T20:31:14Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Given that there are banks marketing accounts specifically to people using Mexican consular documents as ID, I’m not sure I’d believe this bald assertion. Do you have a cite? \*Prior to becoming the FDIC chair in 2006, Sheila Bair ran a research project at for the Inter-American Development Bank at the University of Massachusetts Amherst to discover ways to help unbanked Latin American immigrants use the U.S. banking system. She found that the primary reason recent Latino immigrants don’t use banks to remit money is because they are illegal aliens. \* In any case, if they all have bank accounts, why are they paying Western Union, etc $100’s of millions in wire fees to send cash? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/63 "2017-01-25T20:33:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I can see how people might start mailing those pre-loaded debit cards out of the country in bulk. I wonder if he would then consider putting a tax of those…and how he could possibly show that the intent of the buyer was to send it out of the country? It’s actually illegal to sent those in large amounts out of the country. and mail in Mexico is often stolen, which is why they dont simply send wads of banknotes. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/64 "2017-01-25T20:57:10Z")
May I broaden the discussion? Is Trump going to confiscate all ladders in Mexico? (If not, why not? :smack:) Is there a time in the economic cycle when the Government can help the economy recover quicker by some random expenditure? Would a pointless wall count for this? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/65 "2017-01-25T21:12:34Z")
How much will it cost to dig a tunnel underneath the wall? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/66 "2017-01-25T21:12:48Z")
It’s abundantly clear to me that Mexico will _not_ pay for any border wall, that Donald doesn’t care about that, and neither do his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/67 "2017-01-25T21:18:01Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Over decades?? Ha. The next Democrat president just halts the whole thing. > > Trump will make taxpayers pay for the start of the construction, and Mexico won’t pay a dime. I would love to see a scenario in which 60,000,000 taxpayers suddenly refused to pay their taxes to support these crackpot ideas. ---
**Author:** ![scruffycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scruffycat/32/200_2.png) [@scruffycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scruffycat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/68 "2017-01-25T21:29:32Z")
What’s to stop people using a system like the Hawala one to circumvent taxes? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala) Edit: Actually reading the link it apears to be illegal in some US states, so there’s that ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/69 "2017-01-25T21:38:42Z")
> [@scruffycat](#): > > What’s to stop people using a system like the Hawala one to circumvent taxes? > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala) > > Edit: Actually reading the link it apears to be illegal in some US states, so there’s that In all US states, the whole USA, it’s against Federal law. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/70 "2017-01-25T21:40:21Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > So how do you prove that the person making the transfer is the owner of the money being transferred? > > It seems like that proposal just provides a great new business opportunity for people with impeccable legal credentials and relatives (real or imaginary) south of the border. The average remittance is fairly small (~$300), and it’s no great hurdle to prove legal access to that much money. Hey, it’s not my plan! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/71 "2017-01-25T21:40:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Perhaps money in possession of illegal immigrants is the proceeds of crime - working in the country when not permitted to do so. Sending it to Mexico is therefore money laundering. They also simply work their way through every bank account in America looking for ones belonging to illegals. A crime since they’re here illegally making money so my solution is even easier - civil forfeiture. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/72 "2017-01-25T21:41:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In any case, if they all have bank accounts, why are they paying Western Union, etc $100’s of millions in wire fees to send cash? How else would you do it? I have a bank account too (two, actually, with a regional bank and with a credit union), and if I needed to send money to Mexico, Western Union charges a fair bit less than either for the transfer. The credit union, for example, charges $40 for an international wire transfer of any size. I can walk into a Western Union location, hand them $300 in cash, and my friend/relative can walk out of a pickup location in Guadalajara with the pesos in cash within an hour or so for $12.50 (and that’s not the cheapest option). ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/73 "2017-01-25T21:42:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In all US states, the whole USA, it’s against Federal law. And what would be the dollar cost of the investigators, prosecutors, paperwork, etc., to identify and shut down such networks? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/74 "2017-01-25T21:43:22Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s abundantly clear to me that Mexico will _not_ pay for any border wall, that Donald doesn’t care about that, and neither do his supporters. If Trump puts a levy on money transmittal to Mexico, how will Mexico stop him? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/75 "2017-01-25T21:47:28Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > And what would be the dollar cost of the investigators, prosecutors, paperwork, etc., to identify and shut down such networks? We already have them. I used to do that for the US Treasury, but the FBI and other agencies get in on the act. They arent very common in the USA. I am actually a certified expert on Money Laundering. I think the wall is mostly stupid, but it certainly could be paid for by a small levy on remittances. I dont think it should, however. > **[Front page | U.S. Department of the Treasury](https://home.treasury.gov/)** > > U.S. Department of the Treasury ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/76 "2017-01-25T21:59:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If Trump puts a levy on money transmittal to Mexico, how will Mexico stop him? How much money do the drug cartels currently launder back to Mexico and points south each year? If Mr. Trump’s levy is very low, it won’t generate enough money to fund the wall in our lifetimes. If the levy is too high, though, it merely pushes customers out of the legal system and into the underground. (How exactly do you think the narco-billionaires of the Sinaloa Cartel got their money back from buyers in the states?) ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/77 "2017-01-25T22:04:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We already have them. I used to do that for the US Treasury, but the FBI and other agencies get in on the act. They arent very common in the USA. Yeah, we do, but you are talking about VASTLY increasing the numbers of such investigators and prosecutors. Those extra people aren’t going to work for free. The best estimates I’ve seen suggest that $24 billion is sent to Mexico each year in 80-100 million separate transactions; do you think that the people currently on the federal payroll are going to be able to investigate even a reasonable fraction of that activity going underground? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/78 "2017-01-25T22:08:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If Trump puts a levy on money transmittal to Mexico, how will Mexico stop him? Trump doesn’t know what “levy” means. He may try it, but that will be pissing into the ocean as far as it helps anything. But my point was that he never cared. He isn’t footing the bill. “And Mexico will pay for it!” was a rhetorical flourish, like “Carthago delenda est!”. His supporters ate it up, because it was a signal that Trump hated Mexicans as much as they did. They don’t care who pays for what either, they just want a job, and think being a dick to Mexicans will make that happen. Trying to seriously consider a Trump policy proposal is like interpreting dreams. An interesting diversion, perhaps, but it has nothing to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/79 "2017-01-25T22:16:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In all US states, the whole USA, it’s against Federal law. Which law makes it illegal to call your buddy in another state and say “pay this dude $50, and I’ll owe you”? I’m interested in how that law reads, and how enforcement works. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144/80 "2017-01-25T22:37:59Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I would love to see a scenario in which 60,000,000 taxpayers suddenly refused to pay their taxes to support these crackpot ideas. I’d love to at least see 60 million taxpayers tell their reps to tell Trump to come up with an idea that doesn’t involve, “I’ll pay ya back, promise!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anybody-understand-how-mexico-will-pay-for-the-wall/778144.md?page=5)