# Does anyone actually like Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 28, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704 "2012-07-28T19:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/81 "2012-07-30T14:23:14Z")
The President has not taken force off the table and he has also said that Iran must not get a bomb. The question is whether anyone actually believes that. What Romney said was, "“This is a president who has failed … to communicate that military options are on the table and in fact in our hand” Saying something doesn’t necessarily communicate it if no one believes it, and a lot of people, both the President’s opponent, and his supporters, don’t believe he’d ever attack Iran, no matter what. Personally, I think he’d blow up the whole country without a second thought, wimpiness in the face of foreign threats is not one of his weaknesses as President. But I don’t think it’s dishonest for people to have a different view. The President says a lot of things. One of his actual weaknesses is that he doesn’t always do what he says he’ll do. As one of his spokesman said after a speech he gave on health care, “The President’s statement was not meant to be taken literally.” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/82 "2012-07-30T14:23:15Z")
Anyway, this specific digression is somewhat beside the point. It seems that literally every interview or conversation or speech I see him give contains at least one point of fact (not opinion or analysis) that is wrong, and that I believe Romney knows is wrong. And that level of lying to my face offends me far more than his slight dorkiness (or even GWB’s bumbling inanity). ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/83 "2012-07-30T14:26:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Saying something doesn’t necessarily communicate it if no one believes it, and a lot of people, both the President’s opponent, and his supporters, don’t believe he’d ever attack Iran, no matter what. I guess you can parse it that way if you want. But to me to claim that someone hasn’t communicated something when they’ve said exactly the same words you are saying is mendacious. And it makes me personally dislike the man (beyond any political considerations). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/84 "2012-07-30T14:28:09Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Anyway, this specific digression is somewhat beside the point. It seems that literally every interview or conversation or speech I see him give contains at least one point of fact (not opinion or analysis) that is wrong, and that I believe Romney knows is wrong. And that level of lying to my face offends me far more than his slight dorkiness (or even GWB’s bumbling inanity). I see the same problem with the President or any Democratic spokesperson. The Fact check sites are all over them as well. Sometimes outright lies are told, but most of the time people just get things wrong. Especially politicians, who get fed talking points by their staff without themselves even knowing if they are true or not. The president has said that he opposes an individual mandate. Therefore, I take him at his word. There is no individual mandate. He communicated it to me, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/85 "2012-07-30T14:54:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, your source is full of dishonesty. First off, it doesn’t tell us the party affiliation of all those testimonials. Second, it says when Romney left, Massachusetts was 47th in job growth. That is wrong. Massachusetts was 28th, up from 50th. > > They act as if jobs just fled MAssachusetts. If so, how come unemployment went down? [The 47th in job growth stat does seem to have merit.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/05/david-axelrod/david-axelrod-repeats-claim-massachusetts-under-mi/) You can quibble with the way they computed it, but it’s not incorrect. Romney increased fees widely in Mass. He probably had no choice, given the state’s revenues at the time, but there’s no way that increasing fees is a job-friendly measure. A lot of small (and not so small) businesses take it on the chin when you do that. As a Mass resident during the Romney years, he earned a solid “meh” as governor. Since then, of course, he’s changed positions on everything that could conceivably alienate his base, so the relatively moderate Romney who was governor of Mass no longer exists. That in itself makes him inherently unlikeable. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/86 "2012-07-30T15:49:48Z")
If Romney had an impressive record of jobs growth in Mass. while he was governor, he would be talking about it at every opportunity. His silence about his record as governor is deafening. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/87 "2012-07-30T17:01:05Z")
If you want to argue that the joblessness rate got better in Massachusetts in the latter half of Romney’s governorship, then you need to take into account the fact that he spent large swaths of that time disengaged from the office while he campaigned among the GOP electorate to lay the groundwork for his first presidential run, honing his skills at running away from all the moderate positions he’d espoused to win the governorship and pandering profusely to the despise-Massachusetts-liberal base. Indeed, one might therefore argue that the Bay State numbers got better once Romney got out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/88 "2012-07-30T17:20:42Z")
Here’s one way to interpret the Bain thing. Yes, it appears he did some ruthless things, and made a lot of money. Right or wrong, that had to take a lot of financial know-how. So as the president of the USA he will be under a microscope. Couldn’t his financial know-how benefit the country when used for “good?” And also it looks like Romney would give us the gaffes of Biden with the flip-flops of Kerry, all in one package! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/89 "2012-07-30T17:39:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > and that’s not a change of his agenda either, that’s doing the same agenda. > [@Obama](#): > > The market alone can’t solve our health-care woes. From [here](http://www.ontheissues.org/barack_obama.htm#Health_Care). [Guantanamo reversal](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/177/close-the-guantanamo-bay-detention-center/). > [@Presidential Aide](#): > > The President’s statement was not meant to be taken literally Cite? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/90 "2012-07-30T19:14:15Z")
I voted for Nader in 2000 because while I despised W. Bush, I wasn’t terribly fond of Gore. I thought they were both bad; I failed to understand that one was a lot more bad than the other. I thought the electoral college made my vote unimportant, but my state went closely for Bush. Bush then dropped the Kyoto Protocols. Guess what the last two summers have been like in my state? Our climate “changed.” More to the point, the old climate\* died\*, and now it doesn’t rain in the summer. _In the nation’s breadbasket._ I can despise Gore and still recognize that he might have staved that off. I look outside and the trees are dying. I look to the future and I see massive crop failures year after year, and refugees fleeing the desertified southern Plains. My failure to go out and campaign for the biggest environmentalist candidate in generations may have led to the death of my home region. The\* level\* of bad matters. I stipulate that Obama is a bad president. Guess what? They’re all bad. They’re bad people, they cheat, they do bad things. None of them is perfectly good, anyway. So fine, he’s a bad president. The\* level\* of bad matters. Romney is like W. Bush with more money & a northern accent. I’ve seen flip-floppers, Gore was one and I hated him for it. Romney’s a little more like a pathological liar. I can’t tell if he just consciously lies all the time or if he is somehow mentally incompetent such that he can’t tell truth from falsehood. I wish I could remember what it was where I first got that impression, I think it was an appearance on _This Week,_ but I don’t remember what he was talking about. But I remember he scared me. I will take the deeply flawed, hated, absolute failure-to-lead-the-party, nincompoop now in the White House over Mr. “10,000 bet?” Romney’s basic mental competence, basic ability to distinguish truth from falsehood or right from wrong, is less than apparently there. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/91 "2012-07-30T20:10:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You weren’t repulsed by George Bush? That’s just weird. Actually, ashamedly no. In 2004 I didn’t vote for him but I remember thinking that at least the marriage penalty wouldn’t come back at that time since he won. In 2008 if he was running for a third term then yes I would have been. However, he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/92 "2012-07-30T21:08:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, when the economic crisis was being dealt with, controlled everything and decided to pursue health care after the stimulus. > > After 2011, the Republican Congress passed many bills they say will help the economy, but they die in the Senate. That’s because tax cuts for the rich “help” the economy in a way that the rest of us are entirely sick of. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/93 "2012-07-30T21:12:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I voted for Nader in 2000 because while I despised W. Bush, I wasn’t terribly fond of Gore. So you through your vote away and thereby aided Bush’s 2000 “victory” because you weren’t “terribly fond” of Gore? For God’s sake, you’re not picking a family member, you’re picking someone to make important decisions. In every single election, a Democrat is going to win or a Republican. You have the obligation to vote for the lesser of two evils, even if you hold your nose while doing so. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/94 "2012-07-30T21:13:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I voted for Nader in 2000 because while I despised W. Bush, I wasn’t terribly fond of Gore. So you threw your vote away and thereby aided Bush’s 2000 “victory” because you weren’t “terribly fond” of Gore? For God’s sake, you’re not picking a family member, you’re picking someone to make important decisions. In every single election, a Democrat is going to win or a Republican. You have the obligation to vote for the lesser of two evils, even if you hold your nose while doing so. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/95 "2012-07-30T21:37:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t like Romney. He has no core values and will pander to anyone. > > However, I will probably vote for him. Part of it is that I don’t like Obama’s performance, but that’s not the whole thing. I would still support Obama if the GOP candidate was Santorum or someone equally odious. Did you mean some word other than “support”? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/96 "2012-07-30T21:49:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t like Romney. He has no core values and will pander to anyone. > > However, I will probably vote for him. Part of it is that I don’t like Obama’s performance, but that’s not the whole thing. I would still support Obama if the GOP candidate was Santorum or someone equally odious. He _is_ equally odious. He’s a Republican. The Republican Party is odious, from the ground up, and must never again be permitted to put a candidate into the Oval Office. You know, except as a paying member of a tour group. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/97 "2012-07-30T22:08:18Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > So as the president of the USA he will be under a microscope. Couldn’t his financial know-how benefit the country when used for “good?” Congress largely controls the purse strings of America. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/98 "2012-07-30T22:17:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You have the obligation to vote for the lesser of two evils, even if you hold your nose while doing so. I see that now. In fact it was kind of my point. For your information, I was raised a Republican, and I was fighting a lot of religious right programming. I didn’t become the furious class warrior I am today until later. No, wait, we have an obligation to educate the populace, and to have credible candidates, so they don’t vote for the silly vapid Reaganites. How well did Gore win people over? Oh, yeah, he didn’t. But yes, I’m sorry for my part in handing the country to Bush and possibly ending human civilization. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/99 "2012-07-30T22:22:11Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > [The 47th in job growth stat does seem to have merit.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/05/david-axelrod/david-axelrod-repeats-claim-massachusetts-under-mi/) You can quibble with the way they computed it, but it’s not incorrect. The 47th statistic is accurate, but they said “when he left” massachusetts was 47th. It was actually 28th when he left. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704/100 "2012-07-30T22:23:26Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > If Romney had an impressive record of jobs growth in Mass. while he was governor, he would be talking about it at every opportunity. His silence about his record as governor is deafening. His opponent would prefer not to talk about his record as President. The reasons for both have less to do with their accomplishments than the fact that their accomplishments step on their own narratives of who they are trying to sell themselves as. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-actually-like-romney/629704.md?page=6)