# Does anyone else find this disturbing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134 "2002-09-29T19:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/1 "2002-09-29T19:30:52Z")
[http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/volusia/orl-locvshane29092902sep29.story](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/volusia/orl-locvshane29092902sep29.story) Basically, a boy was beaten to death because another boy thought he had given cigarettes to his little brother. Turned out, he hadn’t. Now, the dead boy was apparently no angel. At 13, he was already smoking and skipping classes. But did he deserve to die, even if he **had** given the other boy cigarettes? I don’t smoke, and I do not believe minors should have access to cigarettes. There’s just something about this story that doesn’t sit right with me. I don’t know what it is that bothers me. Clearly the (alleged) murderer has issues. He may have thought he was protecting his little brother. But to beat another boy to death? Over cigarettes? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/2 "2002-09-29T20:00:13Z")
Oh, hell yes, it’s disturbing. Especially some of the comments from the adults involved. > [@](#): > > … the boy’s stepfather, Jeffrey Buhler, said the teenager is overcome with grief. > > “It was an accident, just a horrible accident,” Jeffrey Buhler said. “Kids fight. It’s not murder.” > [@](#): > > Professor Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence at Northeastern University in Boston, called the incident the “teenage equivalent of a bar fight” that doesn’t merit a charge of murder or a trial as an adult. An ACCIDENT? How the fuck do you beat someone to death by _accident_? And since when is attacking a younger child _who isn’t trying to defend himself and is begging you to stop_ considered “fighting”? Don’t you need two active participants for it to count as a fight? I hope the other kid _is_ tried as an adult. Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that assault and battery is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/3 "2002-09-29T20:30:58Z")
Oh, hell yes, it’s disturbing. Especially some of the comments from the adults involved. > [@](#): > > … the boy’s stepfather, Jeffrey Buhler, said the teenager is overcome with grief. > > “It was an accident, just a horrible accident,” Jeffrey Buhler said. “Kids fight. It’s not murder.” > [@](#): > > Professor Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence at Northeastern University in Boston, called the incident the “teenage equivalent of a bar fight” that doesn’t merit a charge of murder or a trial as an adult. An ACCIDENT? How the fuck do you beat someone to death by _accident_? And since when is attacking a younger child _who isn’t trying to defend himself and is begging you to stop_ considered “fighting”? Don’t you need two active participants for it to count as a fight? I hope the other kid _is_ tried as an adult. Fifteen is plenty old enough to know that assault and battery is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/4 "2002-09-29T20:39:38Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s just something about this story that doesn’t sit right with me. I don’t know what it is that bothers me. Hmm. Ordinarily, children getting beaten to death sits just dandy with me, but there _is_ something a little troubling about this case. A mystery, by gum! To the Mystery Machine! ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/5 "2002-09-29T21:18:55Z")
[sarcasm] Oh, ha, ha! Don’t be silly. Boys will be boys, you know. This is just one of those funny things that, while shocking now, we’ll look back on in five years and say, “Golly, that was a larf!” [/sarcasm] Seriously… I’ll tell ya what’s disturbing about it… the simple fact that anyone, even a kid, can be so incredibly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/6 "2002-09-29T22:00:28Z")
I think I know the thing that’s bothering you here, **ivylass**. It’s the irony of the situation. Here was a 15 year old so protective of his little brother he didn’t want to see the kid hurt in any way. So when he sees what he thinks is someone giving cigarettes to his brother he says “hey, don’t do that. Don’t you know those things could kill?” And to prove how much he hated cigarettes, he went and killed someone for it. That’s the disturbing part: how easily he could kill just to stop harm from occurring. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/7 "2002-09-30T00:38:41Z")
In connection with my political website, I visit some smokers’ rights board. They’re up in arms for two reasons about this…one, that this isn’t getting national attention, and two, that the children have been so “indoctrinated” about the dangers of cigarettes that a boy would feel justified in killing another boy. I don’t completely agree with them, but I could see their point. They believe smoking and smokers have been so demonized it’s apparently okay to kill to protect oneself. They believe if the “antis” hadn’t been so rabid about the dangers of cigarettes, this boy wouldn’t have killed. I submit it could have been anything, alcohol, drugs, hell, even stealing lunch money. The 15-year old obviously has some problems. Is that it? That children are so afraid of cigarettes that they feel it’s justifiable homicide to protect themselves from the Demon Weed? ---
**Author:** ![Kalashnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kalashnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalashnikov)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-find-this-disturbing/130134/8 "2002-09-30T22:11:47Z")
“the equivalent of a bar fight”? I’ve seen a few bar fights in my day, but AFAIK, they resulted in bloody noses and black eyes - not DEATH!