# Does anyone else have a hard accepting republican voters are decent people lately? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514 "2017-10-22T01:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/41 "2017-10-22T12:54:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That just seems to be a fancy way of saying that “Conservatives are racist jerks and Liberals are moral ethical people”, which I don’t think is particularly helpful or true. Conservatives and Liberals are not two fundamentally different species of people. > > I believe that in general, Conservatives were people for whom historically the traditional concept of what “America” is has largely worked for them. Typically rural folk with long-standing ties to their communities and suburbanites whose hard work has afforded them a relatively affluent lifestyle. > > Liberals tend to be people who for whatever reason, the standard concept of “America” is not working for them. Minorities. Gays. Poor people. Smart people who just didn’t “fit” in their rural communities and left for more urban areas. > The reason that Liberals generate such animosity with Conservatives is that Conservatives are largely the ones who see their lifestyle having to change to accommodate the Liberals. From the perspective of Conservatives: > > - They see themselves as just normal people who go to work every day so they can support their families > - When they look at groups like OWS, they see a bunch of lazy, dirty, entitled, unemployed hipsters sitting on their ass in Zucotti Park with their iPads harassing anyone in a suit. > - When they see their taxes increase, they seem corrupt government transferring their wealth to buy votes with little real impact > - When they see social justice warriors picking on people for a particular Halloween costume, they see bullies who are an affront to the First Amendment. > - When they see Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the National Anthem, they see an entitled millionaire shitting on the American flag. > - They see the constant accusations of “racism” as a race-baiting witch hunt. They also see Liberals playing the “race card” to give a free pass when people of a certain color commit crimes. > - When they see a mass shooting on TV, that just reinforces their belief that they need more guns to protect themselves. The more anti-gun protests they see, the more in convinces them that they need their guns as a check against overly liberal policies that will marginalize them and redistribute their wealth. > Now, I believe that rank and file conservatives are a different animal than the Republican Party and their propaganda machine at Fox News and Breitbart. I believe that those groups represent a relatively small party of the extremely wealthy who intentionally exacerbated political divisiveness for their own gains. This is very well said and very reasonable. I feel that we have to stop demonizing each other and look for common ground and understanding. The reasons people voted for Trump are very wide. But one thing I know is that during the campaign he made people feel like he cared about them, many of whom voted for Obama. I also strongly still believe that enough people are still smart enough to see they have been sold a pig in a poke from this guy, and that maybe, MAYBE, enough people can be united by their dislike of Trump and stop all the infighting and name-calling, we can right this ship once again. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/42 "2017-10-22T13:07:12Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > … > I said, “Mama! Go dig him up out of the cemetery right now, I tell him that and he would slap you into next week! He would not recognize this Republican party!” > > I know he wouldn’t. He would probably be turning Democrat right now. I remember my parents had this big fight when Jimmy Carter was running for Gov of Georgia. Daddy campaigned and voted for him, ad when he won, Mama sat in the floor and cried. But we got through that, and everybody knew it wasn’t the end of the damn world. Now I am not so sure. Thank you for your words; I’m sorry if I spoke too harshly. OTOH, an overwhelming majority of GOPsters in Congress are enabling this guy. Murkowski and Collins were only the GOP Senators to vote against DeVos; Collins alone voted against Pruitt. They all hope to pass a huge tax cut for the rich (claims that the cut emphasizes middle class is total lie), increasing the deficit to ensure no hope for funding Medicare, let alone Obamacare. Et cetera, et cetera; it is too disturbing to list their evils. I congratulate you on being an anti-Trump moderate. But at this point, only complete denunciation of almost all Republicans in Congress is acceptable! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/43 "2017-10-22T13:20:51Z")
It isn’t that they are “Republicans” which is the issue. The issue is that they literally support/accept things which true religious conservatives would not is what is worrying. It shows they have no ethical or ideological core. 1. Donald Trump is a pro-choice agnostic… if not atheist… who was married to not one but two Communists. 2. He was assisted into office by Russia, at the behest of another Communist, this one an ex-KGB Colonel. 3. They literally do not give a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa, despite their giving a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa 5 years ago. 4. They accept, without complaint, the open support of Nazis and white supremecists. 5. Morality and judgement mean nothing to them in their decisions who to run the government. Punch a reporter? Great! State that you’re willing to hurt people? Better! Be an admitted sexual assaulter? Well, as a man with a wife and daughters… I’M GONNA MAKE THAT MAN PRESIDENT! It is this combined lack of ideology and morality which makes today’s Republican voter the most dangerous and unpredictable force on the planet: They literally believe in nothing, and what they do believe in, they are unable to translate that into action, ethics, or decision-making. And this is not hyperbole, as we saw Republican voters literally give an immoral, mentally degenerating, ignorantly racist, internet troll who was openly supported by our enemies… well, they gave that man 7,000 nuclear weapons and the United States of America. And we saw the Republican leadership enable it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/44 "2017-10-22T13:21:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Thank you for your words; I’m sorry if I spoke too harshly. > > OTOH, an overwhelming majority of GOPsters in Congress are enabling this guy. Murkowski and Collins were only the GOP Senators to vote against DeVos; Collins alone voted against Pruitt. They all hope to pass a huge tax cut for the rich (claims that the cut emphasizes middle class is total lie), increasing the deficit to ensure no hope for funding Medicare, let alone Obamacare. Et cetera, et cetera; it is too disturbing to list their evils. > > I congratulate you on being an anti-Trump moderate. But at this point, only complete denunciation of almost all Republicans in Congress is acceptable! 🙂 I appreciate that! And I do come from a family that is Southern to the bone and can, at times be country as a turnip green, but we have a long history of being pretty fluid across party lines and being very open with each other about who we vote for. Until Trump. Now we are skirting around each other like a bunch of crabs and I so perturbed by it! Who are these people? But yes, I gotta say I have to agree with you that Trump has got to be pushed out, and I am frustrated with Congressional Republicans. I don’t understand why they are so afraid of their own constituency and they can’t see that the folks back home won’t be nearly as mad at them as they think they will be if they will just fix what is not working with the ACA. Who cares if you ran on “repeal and replace” if you have nothing to replace it with? If they just get it working better, people would love it. I don’t get the stubbornness. People are sick of partisanship, and most people actually WANT to see the two sides working together! I don’t get it, truly. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/45 "2017-10-22T13:31:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It isn’t that they are “Republicans” which is the issue. > > The issue is that they literally support/accept things which true religious conservatives would not is what is worrying. It shows they have no ethical or ideological core. > > 1. Donald Trump is a pro-choice agnostic… if not atheist… who was married to not one but two Communists. > 2. He was assisted into office by Russia, at the behest of another Communist, this one an ex-KGB Colonel. > 3. They literally do not give a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa, despite their giving a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa 5 years ago. > 4. They accept, without complaint, the open support of Nazis and white supremecists. > 5. Morality and judgement mean nothing to them in their decisions who to run the government. Punch a reporter? Great! State that you’re willing to hurt people? Better! Be an admitted sexual assaulter? Well, as a man with a wife and daughters… I’M GONNA MAKE THAT MAN PRESIDENT! > > It is this combined lack of ideology and morality which makes today’s Republican voter the most dangerous and unpredictable force on the planet: They literally believe in nothing, and what they do believe in, they are unable to translate that into action, ethics, and decision-making. And this is not hyperbole, as we saw Republican voters literally give an immoral, mentally degenerating, ignorantly racist, internet troll who was openly supported by our enemies… well, they gave that man 7,000 nuclear weapons and the United States of America. I agree. I don’t understand exactly how the Republican Party got hi-jacked, but indeed it did. I used to think these types of ideas were just outliers, but not any more. However, I don’t think Democrats need to just sit back and let all the people like me just roll into their camp. Democrats got problems, too, although their house isn’t the one burning down at the moment. Just don’t go and get all pontificating and puffed up. Everybody’s got work to do, and as for myself, I am happy to do it. I gotta stay positive, otherwise I will just lose my marbles. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/46 "2017-10-22T13:41:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think many Republican voters have just swallowed conservative propaganda. The right wing media has been telling people for forty years that Democrats are evil and corrupt and treasonous and whatever else. And if you tell people a consistent story long enough, some of them will start to believe it just through repetition. > > The Republicans benefit from these lies in two ways. First, it works in discrediting the Democrats. Second, it opens up room for the Republicans. If they’ve convinced enough people that the Democrats are so terrible, they can afford to be almost as bad as they claim the Democrats are. They’re not being compared to the reality of the Democratic party; they’re being compared to the image of the Democratic party that they made up. > > That’s why some people were able to believe that Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were equally plausible candidates. They weren’t comparing Trump to the real Hillary Clinton. They were comparing Trump to the imaginary Hillary Clinton they’ve been hearing lies about since 1990. This. A thousand times this. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/47 "2017-10-22T13:44:49Z")
To answer the OP’s question, yes. But with the caveat that there are lots of Republicans and conservative-leaning folks out there who don’t like the current administration. So if I discovered that a coworker was a Republican but anti-Trump, I would see that person in a totally different light than someone who loves him some Trump. Furthermore, I put social conservatives in a different box than fiscal conservatives. I still disagree with the latter, but at least they aren’t trying to make us go back to the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/48 "2017-10-22T13:46:41Z")
an excellent thread with many good posts 🙂 > [@](#): > > Donald Trump is malignant and I hate him so much. me, too let’s keep in mind there are forces - evil is not too strong a word, either - who WANT us to be torn apart as a country. Russia, I’m looking at you. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/49 "2017-10-22T13:52:53Z")
All true enough; but I also know that I haven’t seen one repudiation of Trump from any of my Republican FB friends, nor have I heard any of my R friends/family/co-workers criticize any of his actions since he’s been elected. It’s either approval or silence. I made myself give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt. I hoped and hoped that eventually they’d come around after the disaster we knew was coming. I hoped that I would see/hear/read some of them say “y’know…whoops.” But it didn’t happen. So yeah. Surrounded an disappointed by these people. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/50 "2017-10-22T13:57:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That just seems to be a fancy way of saying that “Conservatives are racist jerks and Liberals are moral ethical people”, which I don’t think is particularly helpful or true. Conservatives and Liberals are not two fundamentally different species of people. > > I believe that in general, Conservatives were people for whom historically the traditional concept of what “America” is has largely worked for them. Typically rural folk with long-standing ties to their communities and suburbanites whose hard work has afforded them a relatively affluent lifestyle. > > Liberals tend to be people who for whatever reason, the standard concept of “America” is not working for them. Minorities. Gays. Poor people. Smart people who just didn’t “fit” in their rural communities and left for more urban areas. > The reason that Liberals generate such animosity with Conservatives is that Conservatives are largely the ones who see their lifestyle having to change to accommodate the Liberals. From the perspective of Conservatives: > > - They see themselves as just normal people who go to work every day so they can support their families > - When they look at groups like OWS, they see a bunch of lazy, dirty, entitled, unemployed hipsters sitting on their ass in Zucotti Park with their iPads harassing anyone in a suit. > - When they see their taxes increase, they seem corrupt government transferring their wealth to buy votes with little real impact > - When they see social justice warriors picking on people for a particular Halloween costume, they see bullies who are an affront to the First Amendment. > - When they see Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the National Anthem, they see an entitled millionaire shitting on the American flag. > - They see the constant accusations of “racism” as a race-baiting witch hunt. They also see Liberals playing the “race card” to give a free pass when people of a certain color commit crimes. > - When they see a mass shooting on TV, that just reinforces their belief that they need more guns to protect themselves. The more anti-gun protests they see, the more in convinces them that they need their guns as a check against overly liberal policies that will marginalize them and redistribute their wealth. > Now, I believe that rank and file conservatives are a different animal than the Republican Party and their propaganda machine at Fox News and Breitbart. I believe that those groups represent a relatively small party of the extremely wealthy who intentionally exacerbated political divisiveness for their own gains. I agree that people for whom the concept of “America” has worked are more likely to be conservative, while those for whom it hasn’t work are more likely to be liberal. In our culture historically white christian hetero men were at the pinnacle, and the more of those 4 traits you hit the more likely you are to be a conservative. Men are more conservative than women, whites more than non-whites, straights more than gays, christians more than other faiths, etc. But I don’t think what you are saying is exclusive with what I was saying. Maybe you end up more conservative because the concept of ‘America’ works for you, and as a result you adopt the conservative value system with its higher emphasis on ingroup, purity and respect for authority. As far as Kaepernick I think the big issue is that a black person is doing something they consider disrespectful to police and military to protest something they don’t care about (police brutality against blacks). I think Kaepernick knew the underlying sociological dynamics of the situation, and knew which buttons to push to create controversy. So in the minds of conservatives yes it is an entitled millionaire disrespecting the flag, but they have no problem with Ted Nugent or Kid Rock wearing flag based clothing for example. Its not about the flag, it is about ingroups and outgroups (blacks vs whites), and respect for authority (police and military). As far as the mass shooting incident, that ties into what I was saying earlier where conservatives have brains that notice and respond to threats more strongly. They feel more anxiety, and need more order and protection to feel safe. Hence the obsession with guns, the higher adulation for the police and military, the bigger fears of an open border or terrorism, etc. However again, it does have moral undertones. They react far more strongly when an outgroup member (black nationalist, Islamist) commits a mass killing than when a ingroup member like a conservative white man does it. Your argument about tax increases is arguably also an ingroup/outgroup issue too, because when I hear conservatives talk they either openly or dog whistle talk about how their taxes are supporting \*those \*people. Trump supporters are far more likely to support government aid when it goes to whites than blacks. there was an article in the Washington Post recently about how white conservatives affected by hurricanes wanted aid, but didn’t think Puerto Rico deserved aid. > **[Study: Trump fans are much angrier about housing assistance when they see an...](https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/8/16270040/trump-clinton-supporters-racist)** > > In contrast, Clinton supporters seemed relatively unmoved by racial cues. > **[Many Trump voters who got hurricane relief in Texas aren’t sure Puerto Ricans...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/many-trump-voters-who-got-hurricane-relief-in-texas-arent-sure-puerto-ricans-should/2017/10/20/32da835c-b344-11e7-9e58-e6288544af98_story.html)** > > ‘They need to handle it,’ said one resident of a flood-ravaged Houston neighborhood. ‘It shouldn’t be up to us, really.’ My point is even the issues you list are at root motivated by purity, authority, ingroup/outgroup dynamics, a higher threat response, etc like I listed in my post. Kaepernick, welfare, mass shootings I know accusing people of racism usually shuts down a conversation, but due to evolution we have inbuilt desires to identify with our group. Everyone has bigoted tendencies, it is just a matter of degree and a matter of what you are bigoted about (race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, belief, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/51 "2017-10-22T13:59:39Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > All true enough; but I also know that I haven’t seen one repudiation of Trump from any of my Republican FB friends, nor have I heard any of my R friends/family/co-workers criticize any of his actions since he’s been elected. It’s either approval or silence. > > I made myself give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt. I hoped and hoped that eventually they’d come around after the disaster we knew was coming. I hoped that I would see/hear/read some of them say “y’know…whoops.” > > But it didn’t happen. > > So yeah. Surrounded an disappointed by these people. Yes! This is what I am wanting too! People, I love you, and just admit you were wrong, and I will still love you, and let’s move forward. The silence is sickening. It almost makes me want to pick a fight to get them to admit they were wrong. Almost. I value my sanity. That’s also why I stay the hell off Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/52 "2017-10-22T14:09:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think many Republican voters have just swallowed conservative propaganda. The right wing media has been telling people for forty years that Democrats are evil and corrupt and treasonous and whatever else. And if you tell people a consistent story long enough, some of them will start to believe it just through repetition. > > The Republicans benefit from these lies in two ways. First, it works in discrediting the Democrats. Second, it opens up room for the Republicans. If they’ve convinced enough people that the Democrats are so terrible, they can afford to be almost as bad as they claim the Democrats are. They’re not being compared to the reality of the Democratic party; they’re being compared to the image of the Democratic party that they made up. > > That’s why some people were able to believe that Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were equally plausible candidates. They weren’t comparing Trump to the real Hillary Clinton. They were comparing Trump to the imaginary Hillary Clinton they’ve been hearing lies about since 1990. I agree with a lot of this. Having a media of their own for 20 years has created a alternate reality. Conservatives and the rest of us don’t even live in the same world anymore. It would be funny if it weren’t so dangerous. If Fox News existed in the 70s, Nixon would have probably served out his term and Watergate would have probably been just a “partisan witch hunt” and Nixon would be looked upon as a Conservative hero. > [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > There are certainly different ideas among Conservatives and Liberals in what defines fairness. In my mind I don’t see one argument as right and another as wrong, but in my experience > > Conservatives define fairness as: > > Equality means equality, so everyone should be treated exactly the same. That means no special set-asides for minorities or women. You get in here in this tank and sink or swim with everyone else. The people doing the best work will be the most rewarded and will rise to the top. That is why Conservatives get so irritated with special programs and such. It makes them feel like there is no special group speaking for them, so that feels unfair. It feels like tearing one group down to lift another one up rather than bringing everyone to the same starting line. > > Liberals define fairness as: > > Inequalities are too great to just throw everyone in the tank to sink or swim because some people already know how to swim and others don’t and will drown. In order to give everyone a fair chance, we are going to make sure those who don’t know how to swim are going to get extra attention and resources so they are brought up to the level of the best swimmers. Sure, the mediocre swimmers who never got any extra resources and attention are going to be the ones to drown, but it feels fair because the people who needed the most attention got it and the mediocre swimmers should have made better life choices. I think your characterization of both Conservatives and Liberals are both wrong. To use your analogy I would say Liberals believe everyone in the pool should have received that same swimming lessons and safety equipment and then everyone is starting on a fair footing and no one drowns. The better swimmers still win but the worst swimmers don’t die. Conservatives believe the people who can afford their own swimming lessons and safety equipment deserve them and everyone else better just keep up as best they can. Maybe one of the people who starts without them actually was a better swimmer but we’ll never know because the people who can afford the advantages will always win. To answer the question of the OP I don’t believe every Republican or even Conservative is a bad person but I do believe people who are cruel or thoughtless, if they care about politics at all, will be Conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/53 "2017-10-22T14:10:06Z")
> [@LongTimeLurker](#): > > So you voted for Trump. You have too much pride to admit that you were stupid to vote for him. It is ok. **Everyone knows that you are a dumb ass because you keep trying to defend Trump’s actions.** Do you get off when Trump takes away health care from a million people? Do you get off when Trump slashes the budgets of social safety nets for our most impoverished people so that he can justify giving tax benefits to the richest people in the world? While this thread would be (and will be) more appropriate in the Pit, it was not there when you posted this, and you’ve been noted before for making insulting comments in an inappropriate form. This time, you’re receiving a warning. Pay attention to where you are and respond appropriately, or risk losing your posting privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/54 "2017-10-22T14:17:48Z")
Upon further review of the thread, despite the OP’s “rant” comment, I think the discussion in this thread is more appropriate in IMHO for the time being. I’m going to leave it here for now. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/55 "2017-10-22T14:25:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It isn’t that they are “Republicans” which is the issue. > > The issue is that they literally support/accept things which true religious conservatives would not is what is worrying. It shows they have no ethical or ideological core. > > 1. Donald Trump is a pro-choice agnostic… if not atheist… who was married to not one but two Communists. > 2. He was assisted into office by Russia, at the behest of another Communist, this one an ex-KGB Colonel. > 3. They literally do not give a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa, despite their giving a shit about 4 dead service members in Africa 5 years ago. > 4. They accept, without complaint, the open support of Nazis and white supremecists. > 5. Morality and judgement mean nothing to them in their decisions who to run the government. Punch a reporter? Great! State that you’re willing to hurt people? Better! Be an admitted sexual assaulter? Well, as a man with a wife and daughters… I’M GONNA MAKE THAT MAN PRESIDENT! > > It is this combined lack of ideology and morality which makes today’s Republican voter the most dangerous and unpredictable force on the planet: They literally believe in nothing, and what they do believe in, they are unable to translate that into action, ethics, or decision-making. And this is not hyperbole, as we saw Republican voters literally give an immoral, mentally degenerating, ignorantly racist, internet troll who was openly supported by our enemies… well, they gave that man 7,000 nuclear weapons and the United States of America. And we saw the Republican leadership enable it. Yeah that stuff bothers me too. The moral core the religious right pretends to have isn’t there. They have some values, but they aren’t the values they pretend to have. I would assume their only true values are obtaining and keeping power for themselves, but that doesn’t explain why they picked Trump over a different member of the GOP establishment in the primary. FWIW, religious fundamentalism is to a large degree a trait of right wing authoritarianism. > **[Right wing authoritarianism: you’ll probably recognise this personality trait](https://anotherangrywoman.com/2011/09/22/rwa/)** > > Ever found yourself trapped in an argument that is going nowhere because the other person is so dogmatically right wing that reasoning is impossible? Perhaps they’re cheerfully bellowing R… I think that is the only true moral value of the religious right, the traits of right wing authoritarianism. > [@](#): > > Authoritarian submission: submissiveness and acceptance of authorities which are perceived to be legitimate and established in society, such as government or the police. > > Authoritarian aggression: aggression against outgroups and “deviants”–people who the established authority mark as targets. Examples of this includes travellers, immigrants, Muslims and other kinds of scapegoats. > > Conventialism: high adherence to traditions and established social norms. This can manifest in a respect for “traditional family values”, for example. The question is how do we deal with these people and limit the damage they can do to society. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/56 "2017-10-22T14:34:17Z")
Okay, I get it, republicans were never going to vote for Hillary, they hated her with a passion and they’ve been voting for the republican candidate their whole lives. Fine. Hold your nose and pull the lever. But how in god’s name did you ever let this guy win the primary? You’re supposedly a well meaning fiscal conservative and you have guys like Jeb, Rubio, Kasich, and Ryan at your disposal. Unfortunately being a member of the republican party also means you inherited the uneducated racist hillbilly voters wether you wanted them or not. And instead of running with “your” candidate you let them run the show and force Trump on you. Unforgivable. And instead of standing up to them and letting them know the lunatics don’t run the asylum you let them have their way and put Trump in office. You just fucked yourself with your pride. So have fun trying to control the crazed monkey you’re responsible for. It’s been exasperating watching the republicans try to do it week after week. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/57 "2017-10-22T15:00:06Z")
> [@LongTimeLurker](#): > > So you are a proud Republican. You don’t have any problem with calling out Democrats as being uncaring, inconsiderate people. Your words. And you think that people choose about how they treat others and how they view the political landscape. > > You voted for Trump. Your asinine excuses and your craven excuses for fucking over your neighbor don’t mean shit to anyone else but another Trump voter. > > You might have been a good person in your previous life, but you voted for Trump. You voted for someone that will take away money from your children’s education. You voted for someone that will take away safe drinking water and safe air from your children. You voted for someone that will make a college education for your children so expensive that only the 1% of our population can afford it. > > I don’t know you, I don’t know if you have children. I will tell you what I do know about you. You voted for Trump. You voted against a woman’s right to choose about what happens to her body. You voted for the ‘Religious Right’ to come into my life and the lives of millions of others. You voted for the NRA to continue making money by selling guns to people that really don’t need them. > > Since you voted for Trump, why don’t you just tell people to keep smoking cigarettes? Cancer isn’t all that bad. You voted to keep coal miners employed so they can keep risking their lives to dig out a product that isn’t a sustainable product. Since your president seems to think that coal mining is such a valued profession, I guess that taxpayers should also pay money to make certain coal fired plants buy the coal that Trump is so happy to have other people die for. > > You voted for Trump. So now our preschooler president is calling a Nuclear Capable Nation derogatory names. Little Rocket Man. How proud your choice of a president is that he made up such a quaint name for a nuclear equipped nation.I can’t see a downside there. > > So you voted for Trump. You have too much pride to admit that you were stupid to vote for him. It is ok. Everyone knows that you are a dumb ass because you keep trying to defend Trump’s actions. Do you get off when Trump takes away health care from a million people? Do you get off when Trump slashes the budgets of social safety nets for our most impoverished people so that he can justify giving tax benefits to the richest people in the world? > > So you voted for Trump. What did you think an Oligarch would do our lives? No, I think my point was missed. My point was that I think it’s impolite that the OP assumed (my read on it) that because I’m a Republican, or there are other Republicans that we must all be inconsiderate, uncaring, moronic asses. I, personally, thought it was a stretch and I do not assume that if someone’s a Democrat they are inconsiderate, uncaring, moronic asses. I wouldn’t ask the question because I don’t think someone’s politics has to do with whether or not in the grand scheme of things they are a decent person. Some people are decent people, some people are simply asses. I know Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians and I can’t place any one group of them in a box and mark it jerk. I just don’t think the affiliation matters. Like I said if someone’s a good person, political preference doesn’t play a role imo, same thing if someone’s a jerk. That was my opinion on how I interpreted the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/58 "2017-10-22T15:02:26Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I think your characterization of both Conservatives and Liberals are both wrong. To use your analogy I would say Liberals believe everyone in the pool should have received that same swimming lessons and safety equipment and then everyone is starting on a fair footing and no one drowns. The better swimmers still win but the worst swimmers don’t die. Conservatives believe the people who can afford their own swimming lessons and safety equipment deserve them and everyone else better just keep up as best they can. Maybe one of the people who starts without them actually was a better swimmer but we’ll never know because the people who can afford the advantages will always win. > > To answer the question of the OP I don’t believe every Republican or even Conservative is a bad person but I do believe people who are cruel or thoughtless, if they care about politics at all, will be Conservatives. I see the reasonableness of that, for sure, and I can get on board with your argument. I guess where I always get hung up, and maybe this is the part of me that will always be Conservative, is that I just can’t agree that all white people are the ones equally advantaged. Yes, many are, but where I come from there are quite a few poor whites with an awful lot of barriers, some of their own making, and some not. I can’t help but feel like, crap, these people need some help! And truthfully, aren’t they the ones who blindly voted for Trump because he (falsely) made them think he cared about them? Continuing to punish them and call them names isn’t going to do anything but make this problem worse. I do feel we need to help minorities of all kinds, and we do need special allowances for certain groups, but if you are poor and live in the country and come from a family that has never been to college, and that family has no idea how college even works, and they maybe even pooh-pooh the idea that education is even necessary, well, those kids need to be targeted by school counselors and given information about how these processes work, and yes, assured that there is a path forward for you, too. I say this because there is a lot of assumption around here in rural Georgia that white kids don’t need any assistance with college applications, they just “know”. Well no, they don’t. They are quite stupid about it, and because they don’t understand it, they avoid it and say they don’t need it. I know white kids who truly think that scholarships are only for black people. That if you are white you can’t get one. Somebody at school needs to tell them this isn’t true and show them!! One thing I can say I see as a major class and social difference is that by and large, black families know and understand the value of education and see that as their ticket out of poverty. Poor white families have grown to value education less and less, and don’t see it as a way out of the trailer park. This is maddening to me, and I don’t get why they no longer think sending your kid off to college is something to aspire to anymore. Oh, I know all the hoo-hah about colleges being liberal indoctrination camps, etc…but I think that is just a way of avoiding what you don’t understand. Poor white families tell their kids they will be laughed at by all the rich folks at the fancy school, and when somebody does break ranks go off and get themselves all “edu-macated” they get accused by family of trying to “rise above your raisin’”, which used to be a GOOD thing, but now is a BAD thing? It’s the white equivalent of being called an Oreo. I dunno. Do we let the Dumb Crackers consume themselves? I used to think, eh, ignore their ignorant asses and they will go away. Now I think some measures need to be taken just to recognize maybe a white kid in the classroom may have barriers, too. When you say, oh we are only going to have this program available to minority kids, it doesn’t take other factors into account. I am not saying don’t help minorities. I am just saying maybe what qualifies as a minority isn’t always so cut and dried. Here in the South in public schools in rural counties, there are often only a handful of white kids in each class. Most of whom are poor. Most of the teachers are black. Who is the disadvantaged minority here? Who isn’t going to maybe be getting the attention they need and will stay a dumbass? Maybe it warrants a closer look, is all I am saying. I want good things for everybody. I am raising this argument not because I am, oh here comes the dreaded R-word, “racist”, but because I do believe people who need the most help and attention should get it. And people who are too ignorant to see they have gone out of the frying pan and into the fire need some help, ya’ll! IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/59 "2017-10-22T15:27:27Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > No, I think my point was missed. My point was that I think it’s impolite that the OP assumed (my read on it) that because I’m a Republican, or there are other Republicans that we must all be inconsiderate, uncaring, moronic asses. I, personally, thought it was a stretch and I do not assume that if someone’s a Democrat they are inconsiderate, uncaring, moronic asses. I wouldn’t ask the question because I don’t think someone’s politics has to do with whether or not in the grand scheme of things they are a decent person. Some people are decent people, some people are simply asses. I know Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians and I can’t place any one group of them in a box and mark it jerk. I just don’t think the affiliation matters. Like I said if someone’s a good person, political preference doesn’t play a role imo, same thing if someone’s a jerk. That was my opinion on how I interpreted the OP. The problem a lot of us have is we can’t rectify how moral, informed responsible people could also be Trump supporters. I’ve voted in many elections on the city, state and federal level. None bothered me the way Trump’s election did. I didn’t feel contempt when the republican won a county board seat, or a state senate seat, or the governorship, or things like that. I usually vote democrat but I’ll also vote green, independent, libertarian, etc. depending on the race. But Trump has many things deeply wrong with him that disqualify him not only from holding high office, but from being acceptable in polite company. I wouldn’t have dinner with someone like Donald Trump, let alone hand control of the military over to him. The fact that so many republicans either can’t see that, or choose not to see it, or try to hand wave it away makes it hard to rectify informed, moral responsible people with also being Trump supporters. Having said that, there is impropriety on the part of democrats. But I feel as democrats we are more willing to admit this and take responsibility for it. When William J Jefferson was arrested for corruption I didn’t make excuses for it. I don’t make excuses for the liberal hollywood types who covered up Weinstein’s crimes. And I think nobody should be above the rule of law, just so long as the investigations are legitimate and non-partisan. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514/60 "2017-10-22T15:40:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The problem a lot of us have is we can’t rectify how moral, informed responsible people could also be Trump supporters. > > I’ve voted in many elections on the city, state and federal level. None bothered me the way Trump’s election did. I didn’t feel contempt when the republican won a county board seat, or a state senate seat, or the governorship, or things like that. I usually vote democrat but I’ll also vote green, independent, libertarian, etc. depending on the race. > > But Trump has many things deeply wrong with him that disqualify him not only from holding high office, but from being acceptable in polite company. I wouldn’t have dinner with someone like Donald Trump, let alone hand control of the military over to him. The fact that so many republicans either can’t see that, or choose not to see it, or try to hand wave it away makes it hard to rectify informed, moral responsible people with also being Trump supporters. I am not a Trump lover, but I wasn’t (am not) a Hillary or Bernie lover either. I get what you are saying, I also think if someone wanted to they could make the same case about people of other parties, too. It’s politics, there’s always some dirt or policy disagreement or contempt to go around. Getting back to my thought before though, I don’t think you can take everyone of one party, place them in a box and mark it jerk. I think people do just that sometimes though and I don’t think it’s a fair assessment of a person’s true persona. There are tons of reasons, too many to get into here, that people vote the way they do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-hard-accepting-republican-voters-are-decent-people-lately/799514.md?page=4)