# Does anyone else have a problem enjoying modern books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [June 8, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812 "2021-06-08T02:13:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/62 "2021-06-19T21:47:22Z")
[Moderating] Cool it, @mordecaiB. @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness did not insult you. He explicitly said that he did not think you were racist or misogynist, and he gave a number of suggestions of other books you might like based on that assumption that you were not racist or misogynist. If you can’t respond civilly to people who are trying to help you, that’s on you, not on them. Any further hostility along these lines will result in a Warning, and I recommend that you step away from this thread for a day or two if that’s what you need to cool off. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/63 "2021-06-20T01:06:28Z")
So, after the sidebar, I wanted to go back to the OP. One thing I’ve found frustrating about modern books (other than my previous gripe about editing for readability) is the popularity of the big fat multi-novel story - and the consequences of these trends. Now, I am totally inconsistent in that I enjoy reading said BFMNS - but it has two flaws that drive me up the walls. The first is you read the first book, you get invested, and then wait 4-5-6 years for the next one. Robert Jordan was probably the first one I had the issue with, as I got into the series with the first novel. And while he wasn’t as bad as some (… Rothfuss I’m staring at you…), finding myself having to go back and reread from the start each time he got a new book out was one of the reasons I burned out on his work. The other reason I burned out on his work is that in a BFMNS, the author has no incentive to actually finish their story. It got really obvious, really fast in the example above that after the first couple of best sellers, there was a ton more money to be made. So the story kept getting expanded, and bigger roles for previously bit characters, and subplots and so forth. So the fascination for the setting, characters, or the story kept getting buried in more layers until you just stopped caring at all. While brings me to a last peeve, where you write your BFMNS, and get the awards and attention, and it maybe gets to your head or heart, and that next novel, well, you have conventions to do, and blogs to write, and mech to sell, so it ends up late, maybe a few years, maybe more than a few. And then there’s that _next_ book, and wow, it’s been now 10 years since you wrote the first, and 7 since the second, and how time flies and wait I’m invested in this new project… NO, the author has no contractual obligation with me to finish the story, but it doesn’t mean I (and the other fans) are not disappointed. And it almost retroactively ruins the books I enjoyed previously. A friend of mine, who has similar issues instituted a ‘no incomplete series’ rule for himself. If the series wasn’t finished, he wasn’t reading it, as a direct result of Rothfuss’s **Name of the Wind** novel and the the issue laid out above. I have considered it many a time… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/64 "2021-06-20T02:01:55Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > One thing I’ve found frustrating about modern books (other than my previous gripe about editing for readability) is the popularity of the big fat multi-novel story - and the consequences of these trends. I agree. From a publisher’s standpoint it makes sense: you lock in your audience. From an author’s standpoint it makes sense: your worldbuilding and characterbuilding are already in place to a large degree. And from a reader standpoint it _sometimes_ makes sense: a new book in a favorite series can be a lovely blend of familiarity and novelty (pardon the pun). But I read 70-80 novels a year, and if your second book comes out two years later, I’ll have forgotten like 99% of what happened in the first one. I sure as hell won’t remember the names of any secondary characters, and there’s a good chance I won’t remember anything else about them. And a lot of series, for obvious reasons, don’t have a complete story arc in a single book, robbing the reader of one of the form’s greatest satisfactions. When I read a SF/F novel that’s a standalone, that in itself is a pure delight. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/65 "2021-06-20T19:48:49Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > One thing I’ve found frustrating about modern books (other than my previous gripe about editing for readability) is the popularity of the big fat multi-novel story - and the consequences of these trends. As I mentioned above, people recommended these type of books to me all the time but I never got involved with any of those. I didn’t like Jordan so I never even looked at his series. By the time the Ice and Fire books came along, you couldn’t have paid me to start those books, I knew exactly what was coming. Release date after release date pushed back. It started as a totally planned out five book series, suddenly it’s going to be a ten book series. New main characters turn up in book six and take over the narrative. And, in some cases they keep coming for years after the author has died. I don’t mind a long book series, but make the individual books self contained. Is it asking too much that a book have a beginning and an ending? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/66 "2021-06-21T00:47:25Z")
Oh, and before I forget (again), after taking a minute to go glance at my bookshelves (which triggers memories better than my kindle!), I wanted to mention a Conan-esque series that should world well. Specifically, the Drenai novels by David Gemmell. Now I will qualify this - the books based on Druss are great, the ones not based on Druss . . . well, I won’t recommend them. In terms of published order it’s _Legend_, _The First Chronicles of Druss the Legend_, and _The Legend of Deathwalker_. Chronologically, it’s the second, the third, and the first. I’d read in published order though. And the first is the best of the three, although they’re all worth a read. Aaaaand now I need to reread _Legend_ again. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/67 "2021-06-21T05:38:48Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Drenai novels by David Gemmell. Thank you, I have none of those. Somehow or other, I do have the only crime/mystery novel he published, _White Knight, Black Swan_. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecc23a/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada_Jr)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/68 "2021-06-21T17:56:09Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Can anyone suggest some writers today that have the same feel and length as Robert Howard’s stuff? I just wanted to mention that I recently read a story that that had a strong feel for me of the Howard _Conan_ stories: The _Eric John Stark_ stories by Leigh Brackett. They have the peculiarity of being “planetary romance” stories, set on Mercury, Venus, and Mars, but if you can get past that they have a lot in common with Conan. They are mostly (I think) short, standalone novels or novellas. They are, of course, hardly modern and were originally in the pulps shortly after Howard’s period, but I think they are far less well-known today. Worth a look. > **[Eric John Stark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_John_Stark)** > > Eric John Stark is a character created by the science fiction author Leigh Brackett. Stark is the hero of a series of pulp adventures set in a time when the Solar System has been colonized. His origin-story shares some characteristics with feral characters such as Mowgli and Tarzan; his adventures take place in the shared space opera planets of 1940s and 1950s science fiction. > Stark was born on Mercury. His parents were employees of the mineral extraction company Mercury Metals and Mining. After... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/69 "2021-06-21T18:46:49Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](#): > > I just wanted to mention that I recently read a story that that had a strong feel for me of the Howard _Conan_ stories: The _Eric John Stark_ stories by Leigh Brackett. They have the peculiarity of being “planetary romance” stories, set on Mercury, Venus, and Mars, but if you can get past that they have a lot in common with Conan. They are mostly (I think) short, standalone novels or novellas. They are, of course, hardly modern and were originally in the pulps shortly after Howard’s period, but I think they are far less well-known today. Worth a look. Many years later Leigh Brackett continued the Eric John Stark stories, but, since discoveries since proved that there was no way that Mars or Venus were at all habitable (and completely unlike the pulp standards of dead/desert Mars and swampy Venus), she re-set them on extra-solar planets, as many other pulp writers did after the 1960s. > [@](#): > > Many years later, Brackett returned to the character in a trilogy of books titled _The Ginger Star_ (1974), _The Hounds of Skaith_ (1974) and _The Reavers of Skaith_ (1976). These stories are [science fantasies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fantasy) set on a distant but primitive [extrasolar planet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrasolar_planet), since Stark’s original [Solar System](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leigh_Brackett_Solar_System&action=edit&redlink=1) venue had become unacceptable to publishers. As a result, although the character’s personality and origins are retained, there are few other links between the Skaith novels and the earlier Stark novellas. (also from Wikipedia) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/70 "2021-06-21T22:12:05Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Yes, this is amazing. I would love to read any of those letters. While I mostly know second hand things about these authors from bios and articles, it would be great to see what they talked about to each other first hand, especially if you could read them in sequence, rather than the little snippets that you usually see. A couple titles: > **[Dawnward Spire, Lonely Hill: The Letters of H. P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton...](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/sources/dslh.aspx)** > > Dawnward Spire, Lonely Hill: The Letters of H. P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith > **[A Means to Freedom: The Letters of H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/sources/mf.aspx)** > > A Means to Freedom: The Letters of H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard And Lovecraft’s letters to other people: > **[Lovecraft's Letters](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/letters/)** > > Lovecraft's Letters ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/71 "2021-06-22T06:27:39Z")
Thanks to @Reno_Nevada_Jr and @CalMeacham . It looks like I have six of the _Eric John Stark_ ebooks, and that appears to be all of them. Again, unread. I’d be embarrassed to say how old I was before I realized Leigh Brackett was a woman. > [@PastTense](#): > > A couple titles: > [Dawnward Spire, Lonely Hill: The Letters of H. P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/sources/dslh.aspx) > [A Means to Freedom: The Letters of H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard](https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/sources/mf.aspx) Thanks! I already have the Howard set , but not the Clark Ashton Smith. My understanding at the time was that these were only some of the letters and that they were heavily edited. I know there were a lot of foot notes that explained the context of the letters. It’s becoming apparent from this thread that my problem is buying more books than I will ever read, rather than needing more books. Looks like I may have to admit my wife is right about this. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/73 "2021-06-22T14:16:53Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > my problem is buying more books than I will ever read, That’s my biggest problem. I acquire books faster than I could read them. I now have a stack of roughly 5 dozen books I have to get around to reading. And I usually am reading two to three books at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/74 "2021-06-22T14:33:01Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > I tried reading some recent sci-fi and didn’t enjoy it as much. I read When Gravity Fails, We Are Legion (We Are Bob) and Dark Matter. Maybe I’m not reading the right books, but they weren’t as thoughtful as the older sci-fi that I read. I have been on an Adrian Tchaikovsky kick lately, and highly recommend his Children of Time and Children of Ruin books. I enjoyed the Bob series but it’s fun not thoughtful, the Children series (ETA: not really a series, the first book is standalone, but you will want to read it before the second.) is definitely more on the thoughtful side. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/75 "2021-06-22T14:41:35Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > That’s my biggest problem. I acquire books faster than I could read them. I now have a stack of roughly 5 dozen books I have to get around to reading. And I usually am reading two to three books at the same time. The problem I have is I’ll buy a totally reasonable number of new books . . . and then set them aside because something I was thinking about (see my earlier comment about Legend) takes over and I have to go re-read something. Repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/76 "2021-06-22T15:47:45Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > That’s my biggest problem. I acquire books faster than I could read them. I now have a stack of roughly 5 dozen books I have to get around to reading. Only five dozen? Amateur! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/77 "2021-06-22T15:49:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > there’s Jeff van der Meer running laps around Lovecraft in the “creepy weird horror” genre I just finished reading a long train of Robin Hobb books, and am looking for something new and different. Which of his books do you recommend? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/78 "2021-06-22T16:29:30Z")
How weird do you want? NOT THAT WEIRD: _Hummingbird Salamander_. It’s a basically linear tale, a near-future environmental catastrophe (sort of) mystery thriller. WEIRD BUT NOT SUPER DISTURBING: _Finch_ and _Borne_, the former a noir set in a world ruled by mushroom-men, the latter a post-apocalyptic book that starts with a 200-foot-tall golden bear flying over the ruins of a city and eating people and then gets strange. WILL MAKE YOU WISH YOU HADN’T DROPPED ALL THAT ACID EVEN IF YOU’RE STONE COLD SOBER: The _Southern Reach_ trilogy, starting with _Annihilation_: this is where he really shows his brilliance at building a sense of confusing dread in an uncaring, alien universe. The characters don’t know what’s going on, neither do you, but you both know that whatever’s happening is awful as hell. WHAT EVEN THE NINE FUCKS IS THIS?: _Dead Astronauts_, far and away the most experimental of his works that I’ve read, playing with everything from extreme repetition of text to text in an almost unreadably light grey to numerical patterns appearing mid-text to more conventional stuff like nonlinear storytelling and unreliable narrators. It was very well done, but I’m not sure I’ll need to read anything else by him. There’s also an anthology he and his wife edited, _The Weird_, a collection of stories in the genre from all around the world. My favorite, a novella called "The Other Side of the Mountain by Michel Bernanos, still freaks me out and by itself makes this volume worth finding (although it’s also full of other gems). ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812/79 "2021-06-22T17:21:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The _Southern Reach_ trilogy Sounds like a winner. I’m all about uncaring alien universes like our own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-have-a-problem-enjoying-modern-books/943812.md?page=3)