# Does anyone else NOT like Harry Potter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293 "2004-11-11T23:27:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/61 "2004-11-14T01:46:40Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > As it is, I found the constant emphasis on Harry’s exalted status off-putting. Sometimes I find myself siding with Draco Malfoy as I can understand why he hates Harry so much. Draco seems to get in trouble when doing the right thing (even though he does it to his own benefit), while Harry seems to get praise even though he breaks the rules. I would say that in most of the things Harry turned out to be a hero with, Dumbledore was going to fix things anyway without Harry’s help (philosopher’s stone, the basilisk, etc.). But then Draco says something racist and my sympathy for him goes away. In fact, I think Neville Longbottom went through worse things than Harry yet everybody ignores him. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/62 "2004-11-14T05:02:34Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > If he’s supposed to be the scion of such well-regarded, talented and wealthy parents, and has been famous since birth in the wizarding community, then the fact that he has been allowed to grow up in the care of such abusive relatives really does defy belief, unless the goal was to create a wizard with a craving for power and an undying hatred of nonmagical types. Rowling explained that at the end of book 5. When Dumbledore was giving his usual expository/setup for the next book speech, he stated that he’d made that decision for two reasons. 1) Voldy can’t make a direct strike against Harry if Harry’s with a blood relative. 2) If Harry had been brought up in a magical family, the ten formative years he would have spent knowing he was The Boy Who Lived would have rendered him a “pampered little prince”, incapable of being taught anything, and without the necessary angst to defeat V. Also, I agree with **dangermom** that JKR was “trying and failing to emulate Roald Dahl”. **Agrippina** : Word on poor unsung Neville. If he ends up dying, no matter how nobly, I will be extremely p!ssed. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/63 "2004-11-14T13:39:30Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Rowling explained that at the end of book 5. When Dumbledore was giving his usual expository/setup for the next book speech, he stated that he’d made that decision for two reasons. 1) Voldy can’t make a direct strike against Harry if Harry’s with a blood relative. 2) If Harry had been brought up in a magical family, the ten formative years he would have spent knowing he was The Boy Who Lived would have rendered him a “pampered little prince”, incapable of being taught anything, and without the necessary angst to defeat V. Ah, I hadn’t read book 5. I would have thought however that the reasoning behind Harry’s situation would have been better explained four books ago. Even so, Dumbledore’s logic seems intensely dubious to me. I can’t really argue with Point 1 except to observe that it seems like a terribly contrived justification. Point 2 just illustrates the bizarre values that Rowling’s wizards seem to display; based on the information in the first four books, there really doesn’t seem to be any reason why Harry should recieve any credit whatsoever from surviving Voldemort’s attack. Wasn’t it his mom who really saved him and killed Voldemort by casting Habeus Corpus or whatever it was called? But yet again, in this Harry-centric universe the glory once again goes to the kid who didn’t actually do anything to earn it. > [@](#): > > Also, I agree with **dangermom** that JKR was “trying and failing to emulate Roald Dahl”. > > **Agrippina** : Word on poor unsung Neville. If he ends up dying, no matter how nobly, I will be extremely p!ssed. Unless something happened to Neville in book 5 that radically altered the character from what was seen in the other 4 books, I’m guessing he becomes evil. I mean, he’s already got the word ‘evil’ right there in his name, and in Rowling’s world what more evidence do you need? ’ ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/64 "2004-11-14T20:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > When all the hype began, I picked one up off the shelf at the bookstore and began to browse. The first sentence my eye lit upon was “‘Open!’, he hissed.” I promptly put it back, and have never read one since. Any author with that lack of knowledge or respect of her craft doesn’t deserve to be read. As several posters have suggested (and I can positively confirm, since I’ve got the book open to the passage in question right in front of me), Harry is speaking _snake language_, not English. This is made extremely clear in context. (And I could be wrong, but haven’t you already posted the same thing in several other threads, and been corrected?) Hey, if you’ve _read_ the books and don’t like 'em, fine, but it is _not_ fair to judge an entire series of books on a single line taken out of context. (The movies don’t do them justice either, IMO.) ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/65 "2004-11-15T01:19:28Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Ah, I hadn’t read book 5 … Point 2 just illustrates the bizarre values that Rowling’s wizards seem to display; based on the information in the first four books, there really doesn’t seem to be any reason why Harry should recieve any credit whatsoever from surviving Voldemort’s attack. She kind of explains that in book 5, too … Voldemort was trying to kill Harry in the first place because of a prophecy that he (or possibly Neville, the only other wizard child who met the seeress’ description) was the only one who could permanently destroy Voldemort. The subsequent events proved to most peoples’ satisfaction that Harry was the subject of that prophecy. Three guesses who the seeress was, and eight million guesses why anybody believed her … but I digress. The upshot is, he is the Chosen Champion of good wizardkind, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Keapon\_Laffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@Keapon\_Laffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keapon_Laffin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/66 "2004-11-15T02:34:08Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > How is a person who’s never heard of any kind of monstrous three-headed dog at all less ignorant than one who _has_ heard of it but mistakenly assumed it was a recently literary invention? > > So this is a real conversation you’ve overheard, and Kid 2 walked away genuinely convinced that “There’s only one 3 headed dog. The one from Harry Potter”? > > If someone reads the first **Harry Potter** book but manages to avoid Rowling’s interviews, all other modern fantasy that references mythical beasts, and every other possible source of information on mythology, it’s their own damn fault if they mistakenly assume she made up all those creatures herself. I hardly see how the blame for that falls at Rowling’s feet. On the other hand, if they are well-informed enough to realize that she didn’t personally invent unicorns, dragons, and centaurs (and I think most children are), it shouldn’t send them into denial to hear that she didn’t invent monstrous three-headed dogs either. > > Having a three-headed llama acting as a guardian doesn’t make any sense, nor does making the only way to slip past it be to lull it with music first. It doesn’t make any sense about a dog either…unless you’re familiar with the mythical Cerberus. The only reason to include the Fluffy character is _because_ he’s a well-known mythical beast. From the literary greats to the cheap hacks, there are precious few fantasy writers who haven’t done this sort of thing. You could argue that Rowling isn’t as good at it as some other authors, but if it’s wrong in principle then most of the fantasy genre is on equally shakey moral ground. Wow. And I thought the topic was “Does anyone else NOT like Harry Potter?” Look, I didn’t come here to argue about with a HP fanatic. I just came here to agree with the OP. If you love HP so much, then start your own thread. This is expressly for people to who DIDN’T like the books. I didn’t. I’ve said why. And I don’t appreciate my POV being lambasted by a yet-another die-hard HP fan. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/67 "2004-11-15T05:06:55Z")
> [@Keapon Laffin](#): > > Look, I didn’t come here to argue about with a HP fanatic. You’re not arguing with an HP fanatic, so that’s all right then. > [@](#): > > _This is expressly for people to who DIDN’T like the books._ That’s not what the OP said. In fact, the second-to-last sentence in the OP seems to be directed at people who _did_ like the books. > [@](#): > > _I didn’t. I’ve said why._ Your stated reason is ridiculous, and I’ve said why. There are plenty of sensible reasons to dislike the Harry Potter books, including “they just didn’t do it for me.” “They’re bad because they allude to mythology”, however, is just plain silly. You’re entitled to dislike things for silly reasons, and since you’re not prepared to make an argument I’m happy to let the matter drop, but whenever you post you have to expect that someone will question your position. That’s just the way this board is. > [@](#): > > \*And I don’t appreciate my POV being lambasted by a yet-another die-hard HP fan. :mad: \*Are you sure it’s not just my stolen-from-mythology username that’s setting you off? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/68 "2004-11-15T09:03:11Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > As several posters have suggested (and I can positively confirm, since I’ve got the book open to the passage in question right in front of me), Harry is speaking _snake language_, not English. This is made extremely clear in context. (And I could be wrong, but haven’t you already posted the same thing in several other threads, and been corrected?) > > Hey, if you’ve _read_ the books and don’t like 'em, fine, but it is _not_ fair to judge an entire series of books on a single line taken out of context. (The movies don’t do them justice either, IMO.) So why didn’t she take the trouble to actually write some words in Snakish that he could actually hiss - she didn’t need to create a whole language a la Tolkien, a few words would do: ‘“Hiss!”, he hissed.’ The original is just lazy and reads appallingly. And yes, you are wrong: I haven’t posted ANYTHING in ANY Harry Potter threads before this one, let alone been corrected on them. If you’re insinuating I’m trolling, which I strongly resent, you know which forum to take it to. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/69 "2004-11-15T13:21:18Z")
No, I’m not insinuating you’re trolling; it’s just that somebody else has posted something very similar in the past, and I assumed it was you. Apologies. But it does seem silly to demand that she invent an entire new vocabulary and spend the time explaining what the words are and what they mean when the whole exchange can be dispatched in a few lines. (Trust me, there is no possibility that anybody who has read the entire book, or even the entire chapter, could be confused by this.) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/70 "2004-11-15T13:29:14Z")
Harry hissed the ancient snakish word for “open.” How fricking hard was that? As uninspired as it is, it is light years better than what Rowling wrote and her editor permitted. There’s better fantasy out there, children’s fantasy included, than what the Potter series has to offer based on my exposure to it. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/71 "2004-11-16T04:05:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Point 2 just illustrates the bizarre values that Rowling’s wizards seem to display; based on the information in the first four books, there really doesn’t seem to be any reason why Harry should recieve any credit whatsoever from surviving Voldemort’s attack. I haven’t read them in a bit but doesn’t Harry himself point this out more than once? Harry wants a normal life and all his fame embarrasses him no end. But as Hagrid says in the first book, once old Voldy decided to kill someone, they died. All except Harry and no one knows how exactly that happened. That’s why everyone knows his name. Not because he did anything but because he’s The-Boy-Who-Lived. Someone previously mentioned Neville as being another who could have fit the prophecy and he could in several points. But the Dark Lord didn’t mark Neville. Harry’s the one with the scar-assuming that’s what they mean by “mark him as an equal”. Also, not many people know the story of Neville’s parents as well as they do the story of Harry’s, although I would be surprised if the Longbottom’s weren’t the only people left in that state by proloned exposure to Crucio. As for me, once Neville gets his own wand and not his father’s (which has been broken now), I suspect he’ll get better at magic and I, for one, will be disappointed if he doesn’t get to kick that LaStrange bitch’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/72 "2004-11-16T04:07:22Z")
> [@Arden Ranger](#): > > As for me, once Neville gets his own wand and not his father’s (which has been broken now), I suspect he’ll get better at magic and I, for one, will be disappointed if he doesn’t get to kick that LaStrange bitch’s ass. Refresh my memory: What did Bellatrix do to his parents? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/73 "2004-11-16T08:43:25Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > No, I’m not insinuating you’re trolling; it’s just that somebody else has posted something very similar in the past, and I assumed it was you. Apologies. “Search!” he hissed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/74 "2004-11-16T09:54:10Z")
Why do I dislike Harry Potter? Because I’ve been reading fantasy literature for decades, and Harry Potter, I’m sorry to say, is Fantasy Lite; Weiss & Hickman without the epic sweep. People start acting like J.K Rowling is some kind of Second Coming, and I want to tell them to read some early Ursulla K. LeGuin and then get back to me to apologize. Plus, the bitch stole George R.R. Martin’s Hugo. Yeah, I’m a snob. Whatcha’ gonna do about it? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/75 "2004-11-16T14:56:58Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’m not a fan but then, I’m not much of a fantasy reader to begin with. I love science-fiction – it’s my favorite genre – but if wizards or dragons or long lost swords of ultimate power are involved, I automatically zone out. > > I need blasters and aliens and super-duper weapons of mass destruction. I am almost exactly the opposite. If it’s got nothing but technical stuff, I can’t read it Give me an evil wizard any day. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/76 "2004-11-16T15:00:45Z")
> [@Who\_me?](#): > > I enjoyed reading the books that have been published so far and I intend to read the rest. They aren’t “Great Literature” but they’re nice enjoyable reads. Exactly. One thing I have noticed about HP, however, is the re-reads aren’t very good. The books are a little too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/77 "2004-11-16T15:39:20Z")
Having read four of the books, I think Rowling’s greatest weakness is in moving the plot along. She has a lot of interesting ideas that are incidental to the plot, but when it comes time to get things moving she always falls back on long-winded expositions. She often tries to disguise these as conversations, but they’re really monologues. She isn’t too good at creating characters, either. The movies are far better than the books in this regard, since the actors are usually good enough to take the rather flat characters in the books and infuse them with personality. I couldn’t get interested in the characters at all until the first movie came out. After that, I could imagine Daniel Radcliffe, Emily Watson, Robbie Coltrane, Alan Rickman, etc. in the roles, and it became much easier sledding. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/78 "2004-11-16T15:43:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Plus, the bitch stole George R.R. Martin’s Hugo. > > Yeah, I’m a snob. Whatcha’ gonna do about it? Rowling got a Hugo?! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/79 "2004-11-16T20:15:27Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Rowling got a Hugo?! :rolleyes: Yep. _Goblet of Fire_ beat out _Storm of Swords_ in the biggest miscarrige of justice since Costner took the Oscar over Scorcese in 1991. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293/80 "2004-11-16T21:13:33Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > She isn’t too good at creating characters, either. The movies are far better than the books in this regard, since the actors are usually good enough to take the rather flat characters in the books and infuse them with personality. I agree with you there. I wish Mr. Ollivander was in the books more so that they could bring John Hurt back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-else-not-like-harry-potter/274293.md?page=5)