# Does anyone even LIKE Dick Cheney? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 2, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955 "2006-08-02T00:01:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/21 "2006-08-02T02:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Sure thing, **luce** , you know I wouldn’t steer ya wrong…just rummage around in this thread starting at about post #20: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284287&highlight=cheney](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284287&highlight=cheney) [/QUOTE] The only consensus I see in that thread is one reached by you and a couple other conservatives over why liberals dislike Dick Cheney. The consensus being reached, I should note, without a single post from a liberal so much as mentioning Dick Cheney being posted between your request for information, and your agreement over why he is disliked. After you had your fill of slapping each other’s backs, there are precisely three responses from liberals. All of them contain significantly more reason to dislike Cheney than “He looks evil and is Republican.” The posts are: > [@Maureen](#): > > Starving Artist, I don’t think Dick Cheney is evil because he “looks mean.” I think he’s evil because of his policies, his modus operandi, the fact that he’s callously duped the American people into putting cash into his pockets while getting a large number of them killed, and because he keeps what’s left of his black shrivelled heart in a jar in the safe in the Oval Office. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > [responding to **Maureen** ’s post]Plus that whole business with cursing out his opponent on the Senate floor. > > And his granddaughter’s adorable Halloween costume. > > And-- oh, hell, just listen to him talk. The man is evil, I tell you! Eeeeeevil! This one comes closest to your charicture, and includes many petty things, but only after agreeing with **Maureen** ’s substantial criticism. And, obviously, it is meant to be funny. > [@Askia](#): > > I called him charmless, surly, a puppetmaster and big business sock puppet and all you want me to cite is “mean?” > > Late July, Cheney told Senator Patrick Leahy – during a debate on the senate floor – to go fuck himself. > > Mean. Also rude and churlish. So, in point of fact, when you asked “several Cheney haters” (“several” being defined as “three”) why they hated Cheney, you actually received severe criticism of Cheney’s politics, personality, and personal ethics. _Not_ simply “he looks evil and is Republican.” Your original claim is grossly inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/22 "2006-08-02T02:49:57Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] So, in point of fact, when you asked “several Cheney haters” (“several” being defined as “three”) why they hated Cheney, you actually received severe criticism of Cheney’s politics, personality, and personal ethics. [/QUOTE] Dude, seriously, why are you being the killjoy? This has the potential for an 18 page diatribe about Cheney. Don’t stifle the seed in its first page, nurture it. Fertalize it (heh). Lighten up and allow the hate to flow. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/23 "2006-08-02T02:52:18Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] He’s great. [/QUOTE] Stalin was great. Hitler was great. Genghis Khan was great. Defining “great” as “having significant influence on the course of history by one’s own actions or will.” But great != good. More relevantly, great != likeable. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/24 "2006-08-02T02:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] He’s been in the cutthroat oil industry for decades, he was head of Halliburton (have we all gotten over the fact Halliburton doesn’t control oil prices, class?) and took the company to a level of expertise that nobody else could match. The guy has the brains to know where to push, where to back off, and where to say “fuck it, I’m taking over and making a decision.” [/QUOTE] -Cheney’s aquisition of Dresser Industries, and their attendant asbestos liabilities? Brilliant! [Halliburton Pays Dearly but Finally Escapes Cheney’s Asbestos Mess](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64535-2005Jan10.html) It only cost the company $5,000,000,000 to resolve the subsequent bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/25 "2006-08-02T03:42:14Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] -Cheney’s aquisition of Dresser Industries, and their attendant asbestos liabilities? Brilliant! [Halliburton Pays Dearly but Finally Escapes Cheney’s Asbestos Mess](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64535-2005Jan10.html) It only cost the company $5,000,000,000 to resolve the subsequent bankruptcy. [/QUOTE] Well, let’s take a look. > [@](#): > > Instead, let’s talk about Halliburton’s well-executed $5 billion escape from its asbestos problems, most of which Cheney created when he orchestrated Halliburton’s purchase of Dresser Industries in 1998. Few people connect this problem with Cheney, but they should, given that he was in charge at the time and got a raise as a result of buying Dresser. OK. Everything that involves Halliburton is Cheney’s fault. Got it. I assume Halliburton will win accolades and awards after Cheney dies? And it’s utterly shocking a CEO would receive a bonus or raise for acquiring another seemingly profitable company. > [@](#): > > Dresser’s asbestos problem was only a potential one when Halliburton bought it, but rapidly metastasized into a threat to Halliburton’s existence. By then, though, Cheney had gone off to Washington. Aw, crap. The problem was only “potential”. And only “metastasized” after Cheney went to Washington. So Cheney is just outrighted blamed for all? Or should we really hammer the truth? Cheney isn’t Kreskin? > [@](#): > > Had he still been Halliburton’s chief executive, Wall Street might have forced him to take responsibility for the asbestos problem he imported to his company. But because he wasn’t around – and because his successor, Dave Lesar, was a stand-up guy – Cheney has largely escaped scrutiny for this fiasco Wow, wouldacouldashoulda. Good argument. > [@](#): > > Now that Halliburton has managed to extract itself from its asbestos liability by paying a ton of cash and stock to trusts that will compensate victims A ton of cash and stock to the victims? Let’s all forget the victims when we see the stock go up. > [@](#): > > and their lawyers Er, forget the above quote. This lawsuit didn’t put any money in Big Oil’s pockets. Who got rich off this deal? > [@](#): > > While Halliburton’s all-stock takeover of Dresser was valued at $7.7 billion when it was announced in February 1998, it was worth only $5.3 billion when it was completed seven months later. The bankruptcy settlement is costing Halliburton just about that much: around $2.8 billion in cash, Halliburton stock with a market value of $2.3 billion the day before Dresser’s bankruptcy was resolved and miscellaneous odds and ends and potential payments. I call shenanigans. How did Cheny allow anything that would cost Halliburton money? Surely his evilness is powerful enough to have the full force of Big Business to reign hellfire upon Wahington and Wall Street, backed by the GOP’s blessing? That, or he’s a good business man that realizes markets don’t instantly conform to the speed of their internet connection. Up in the air on that one. > [@](#): > > That works out to around $4.3 billion. That doesn’t include what Dresser-related claims cost Halliburton between the purchase in 1998 and the Chapter 11 filing in 2002 by Dresser and other Halliburton subsidiaries. It doesn’t include offsets for possible insurance payments, either, but I don’t know how to value those. So we’re talking about years before becoming VP, and years after giving up control of the company. But if the name is there, that’s all that’s needed. At least for a columnist. Or a rabid Cheney foe. Or one and the same. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/26 "2006-08-02T03:48:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Very squirelly, there **SA**. Why not quote the specific posts, if there are any? [/QUOTE] That’s is because I was (and am) pressed for time. In fact, I’m posting now from the home of a friend whose house I was headed to when posting the link above and she is pestering me mercilessly even now as I attempt to compose this post. I believe the thread I cited illustrates perfectly the impotent responses to my question about specifics as to Cheney being “mean”. **Miller’s** claims to the contrary, I asked _all_ the posters to the thread and only three responded, and in my opinion these few responses fall far short of providing specific incidences of Cheney’s behavior that would justify his reputation for being “mean”. I’m sure everyone here has either thought or said that someone should go fuck themselves, yet I’m equally sure that most, if not all, would not characterize themselves as being mean people as a result. Additionally, **Maureen’s** post which **Miller** quotes is nothing but conjecture and biased opinion and falls far short IMO of showing any “meaness” on Cheney’s part – especially since the purpose of her post is to claim that he is “evil”, not “mean”, which also fits in perfectly with the way I paraphrased the responses I received in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/27 "2006-08-02T04:00:07Z")
Yeah, maybe. But you were _still_ bluffing. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/28 "2006-08-02T04:01:48Z")
God, I hope not. _horrible mental image_ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/29 "2006-08-02T04:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Yeah, maybe. But you were _still_ bluffing. [/QUOTE] Au contraire! I was paraphrasing, and the thread I linked to illustrates the point of my paraphrase exquisitely, I do believe. But apart from that, pretty lame response there, **luci**. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/30 "2006-08-02T04:14:15Z")
I think this comes down to that difference between agreeing with policies and “likeability”… Cheney’s policy positions are pretty much identical to Bush’s, aside from a gay marriage amendment. But Cheney is Bush without the folksy demeanor, the outward Christianity, the love of baseball, the verbal miscues, the smirk, the Texas accent, and the footage of him constantly stabbing a pitchfork at brush on the ranch. In other words, Cheney is Bush without the things that make him seem like an actual, breathing human being. Would you want to sit down to a beer with Dick Cheney? People say no because they don’t even know if Dick Cheney likes beer in the first place! He’s a pasty-skinned, mostly bald, kinda tubby white guy with round-frame glasses with a heart condition who is completely humorless in every single public appearance and who gives no tipoffs as to what he’s actually like as a _person_: The textbook definition of the asshole, ruthless businessmen that Americans aspire toward yet also hate at the same time. The man is Monty Burns without the laugh-inducing frailty. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/31 "2006-08-02T04:16:10Z")
[QUOTE=SNenc] I think this comes down to that difference between agreeing with policies and “likeability”… Cheney’s policy positions are pretty much identical to Bush’s, aside from a gay marriage amendment. But Cheney is Bush without the folksy demeanor, the outward Christianity, the love of baseball, the verbal miscues, the smirk, the Texas accent, and the footage of him constantly stabbing a pitchfork at brush on the ranch. [/QUOTE] Actually, I don’t have to strain much to picture Cheney wielding a pitchfork . . . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/32 "2006-08-02T04:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] That’s is because I was (and am) pressed for time. In fact, I’m posting now from the home of a friend whose house I was headed to when posting the link above and she is pestering me mercilessly even now as I attempt to compose this post. I believe the thread I cited illustrates perfectly the impotent responses to my question about specifics as to Cheney being “mean”. **Miller’s** claims to the contrary, I asked _all_ the posters to the thread and only three responded, and in my opinion these few responses fall far short of providing specific incidences of Cheney’s behavior that would justify his reputation for being “mean”. I’m sure everyone here has either thought or said that someone should go fuck themselves, yet I’m equally sure that most, if not all, would not characterize themselves as being mean people as a result. [/quote] You’re right, my earlier summary was incorrect. You specifically asked why people think he’s _mean_. **Israfel** immediately answered: > [@Israfel](#): > > Well, Cheney cursed Leahy at one point- but I believe he was regarded as mean before that incident as well. It seems to me the main reason some people call him mean is because they think he “looks” mean- and that’s pretty much all there is to it. Two unrelated posts later, you respond: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > So, we have a whole cadre of people out there who hate Cheney because he’s “mean,” and who deride Bush accordingly for selecting such a mean and disagreeable person to be vice-president, when in reality they’re just misinterpreting his face. > > I’m glad we have this site, which is dedicated to fighting ignorance, in which to combat this injustice. You’ve already reached your decision, without actually hearing one opinion from any of the people you were polling. Note that **Israfel** is not describing his own position: he’s describing why he thinks other people think Cheney is mean. From this, you go straight to “a whole cadre of people.” Who are these people? Who, specifically, in that thread is part of that cadre? > [@](#): > > Additionally, **Maureen’s** post which **Miller** quotes is nothing but conjecture and biased opinion and falls far short IMO of showing any “meaness” on Cheney’s part – especially since the purpose of her post is to claim that he is “evil”, not “mean”, which also fits in perfectly with the way I paraphrased the responses I received in that thread. It was not intended to show meaness. She starts out by stating that her problem with him has nothing to do with him being “mean.” She does not think he’s mean because he’s evil. She thinks he’s evil because of “his policies, his modus operandi, [and] the fact that he’s … getting a large number of [Americans] killed.” I don’t really see “conjecture” there, unless you were refering to the bit about keeping his heart in a jar. It’s true, we don’t know where Cheney keeps his heart. Personally, I think he keeps in inside a perfect emerald at the top of a minaret in a distant kingdom. Who knows? The point is, **Maureen** doesn’t think he’s mean just 'cause he’s evil. She made no claim about his meanness one way or the other. Also, “biased opinion” is redundant. Of the other two posts in that thread, **Tracy Lord** ’s does not mention “meanness” at all, although it does mention the Leahy incident. The only poster who responded to you who thought Cheney was “mean” was **Askia** , whose comment prompted your question in the first place, and who cites Cheney swearing at Leahy as evidence of him being “mean.” I agree, this is weak evidence. Cheney swearing at Leahy is probably the only thing he’s done in his entire life that I whole-heartedly approve of. (Nothing specific against Leahy, I’m just hold the belief that all politicians need to be cursed at as often as possible.) However, weak as it is, this is still more of a reason than “He’s evil and Republican.” So, your claim that “the consensus” in that thread was that people think Cheney is mean because he “looks evil and is Republican” are shown to be entirely baseless. Two posters thought he was evil _instead_ of mean, and one poster thought he was mean, but not because he was evil. No one mentioned him being a Republican, so I guess we can mark that one down as “conjecture” on your part. I can’t bring myself to use the phrase “biased opinion” with a straight face, so you’re off the hook on that one. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/33 "2006-08-02T04:18:40Z")
**Starving Artist** misrepresenting his political opponents’ arguments? What next? Long days and hot weather in August? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/34 "2006-08-02T04:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Aw, crap. The problem was only “potential”. And only “metastasized” after Cheney went to Washington. So Cheney is just outrighted blamed for all? Or should we really hammer the truth? Cheney isn’t Kreskin? [/QUOTE] How long did it take the unforseen problems in Iraq to ‘metastasize’? Who did the ‘unforseeing’ there? You claimed that "The guy has the brains to know where to push, where to back off, and where to say “fuck it, I’m taking over and making a decision”, yet you’re willing to give him a pass for repeated inability to see obvious problems? Cheney doesn’t need to be Kreskin, but there are a fair number of other CEOs at big companies that _haven’t_ instigated 5 billion dollar fuckups. Given that fact, I think you idolize the VP’s brainy abilities a bit too much. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/35 "2006-08-02T04:23:03Z")
He MUST ne likeable. He shot a guy in the face and the guy apologized. I like him. Really. It’s safer that way. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/36 "2006-08-02T04:46:01Z")
**Miller** , we can quibble over semantics all night, but the fact remains that the responses I received regarding specific incidences illustrating Cheney’s alleged meanness were ‘impotent’, to say the least…exactly as I suggested. Clearly, the revulsion most of the posters here have toward him is politically motivated rather than based on his actual behavior. People here think of him as mean because it suits their purpose, not because it’s an actual fact. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/37 "2006-08-02T04:50:41Z")
So he shoots the guy in the face, and when the Texas Hway cops come to give him a breath test and maybe talk things over a little…he says he’s too busy right now for that, come back in the morning, maybe… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/38 "2006-08-02T04:54:57Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So he shoots the guy in the face, and when the Texas Hway cops come to give him a breath test and maybe talk things over a little…he says he’s too busy right now for that, come back in the morning, maybe… [/QUOTE] Exactly. A guy like that, you BETTER like him. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/39 "2006-08-02T04:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Clearly, the revulsion most of the posters here have toward him is politically motivated rather than based on his actual behavior. [/QUOTE] That’s a distinction without a difference. His politics and his behaviour are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing when he hold a position such as Vice-President of the United States. What he does in public office is inseperable from his politics. I have no trouble conceding that my dislike of Cheney is politically motivated. It is motivated by his politics and by his actions in pursuit of those politics, nearly all of which i am in strong disagreement with. Your allegation, earlier in this thread, was that those who dislike Cheney hold the following position: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > “Uh, well, nothing really…but just look at him, he’s got to be evil! And besides, he’s a Republican…there’s your proof right there!” That’s quite different from disliking him for the specific policies and politics that he supports and promotes. Every time i think you’ve reached the nadir of illogicality and lack of comprehension, you prove me wrong. It’s quite impressive, really. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955/40 "2006-08-02T05:15:07Z")
He fuckin’\* killed\* Chuck Norris, ya know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-even-like-dick-cheney/366955.md?page=3)