# Does anyone like Obama's health care plan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026 "2010-09-25T17:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/1 "2010-09-25T17:39:21Z")
On one side we’ve got the typical conservative argument against government intervention in health care. Check. On the other side we’ve got people who favor universal health care. Check. Who are the people who like Obama’s plan as-is? I’ve heard several people say things to the effect of “It’s a good start.” “It’s better than nothing.” I’ve even heard cynical arguments that his plan will make health care so bad that people will be demanding universal government run health care. Does ANYONE support the plan as a stand-alone law? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/2 "2010-09-25T17:47:49Z")
It’s a **ginormous** compromise. Why would anyone like it, as is? ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/3 "2010-09-25T18:11:42Z")
I won’t get into a debate, as I’ve seen many, many of those, here and elsewhere. It’'s been debated to death. I KNOW ppl on this board have had ample opportunity to think about it and read some of the best arguments and evidence available on both sides. No one here will be swayed by further arguments unless new evidence/figures/arguments are presented, and even then I have my doubts. I will answer your question though, with a very brief explanation why. No, I don’t like it. It is a compromise, and it doesn’t do enough to reduce costs and increase availability of health care. The best I can say is that it’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/4 "2010-09-25T18:16:32Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > No, I don’t like it. It is a compromise, and it doesn’t do enough to reduce costs and increase availability of health care. The best I can say is that it’s a start. A lot of the people who don’t like the bill think it’s a start to the US becoming a socialist country. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/5 "2010-09-25T18:20:42Z")
I think even Obama would admit he doesn’t like the plan as is, if politicians were allowed to be so candid. It’s still an important step to make though, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/6 "2010-09-25T18:35:22Z")
It’s better than what we had before. It will allow people who want to get health insurance to get it and supposedly require everyone to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/7 "2010-09-25T18:38:13Z")
The current plan fixes some bad things. There is still much to do, but that does not make the Obama plan a bad one. The perfect is not the enemy of the good. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/8 "2010-09-25T18:40:39Z")
The problem is that Obama’s plan to start with was an enormous compromise, one that Clinton-era Republicans probably would have been able to live with. So the final plan is a huge compromise of a huge compromise. The plan is weak enough that Democrats aren’t willing to get out and sell it, but the Republicans still act like Obama has handed the country over to the commie socialists. So it’s no wonder that public sentiment is against it, even though I’d bet 90% of Americans can’t even say what it does. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/9 "2010-09-25T18:42:28Z")
Here’s a recent poll that addresses this topic - [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](http://us.new.m.yahoo.com/w/ynews/article/mostpopular/1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fxml.news.yahoo.com%2Fus%2Fnews%2Frss%2Frichstoryrss.html%3Fu%3D%2Fap%2F20100925%2Fap_on_bi_ge%2Fus_health_care_poll&.ts=1285439463&.intl=us&.lang=en) Long story short, a lot more people want to see more healthcare rather than a repeal… ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/10 "2010-09-25T18:48:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think even Obama would admit he doesn’t like the plan as is, if politicians were allowed to be so candid. > It’s still an important step to make though, IMO. Baloney. This is precisely the plan he wanted because it was the one plan the insurance companies could live with. He threw all his campaign promises about fostering transparent government out the window so he could meet with insurance executives in private and hammer out a deal. He had a Democratic majority in Congress and did nothing to push them towards the type of reform that most of the people actually wanted. I’m really tired of this “woe is Obama” crap. He made his position abundantly clear when he spit in the face of his “congenitally pessimistic” base at that Greenwich fundraiser. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/11 "2010-09-25T18:48:36Z")
I see it as a _tremendous_ improvement over the status quo so I like it. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/12 "2010-09-25T19:15:27Z")
It’s a broken half-ass compromised law that if implemented as is will make things even worse. Fortunately, it won’t be implemented as it. Things don’t fully kick in until 2014 and in the next four years I expect the law to be revised. I doubt there will be a large scale fight to change it, but there will be an amendment here, a regulatory decision there, and so on. What starts in 2014 won’t be exactly what was passed in 2010. Hopefully, those changes will fix some of the problems. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/13 "2010-09-25T19:24:47Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > This is precisely the plan he wanted because it was the one plan the insurance companies could live with. He threw all his campaign promises about fostering transparent government out the window so he could meet with insurance executives in private and hammer out a deal. Why exactly should obama do the bidding of the insurance companies? Please, complete the theory for me. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/14 "2010-09-25T19:30:00Z")
> [@godix](#): > > It’s a broken half-ass compromised law that if implemented as is will make things even worse. Fortunately, it won’t be implemented as it. Things don’t fully kick in until 2014 and in the next four years I expect the law to be revised. I doubt there will be a large scale fight to change it, but there will be an amendment here, a regulatory decision there, and so on. What starts in 2014 won’t be exactly what was passed in 2010. Hopefully, those changes will fix some of the problems. There is one potentially HUGE problem that could lead to either the whole thing going south or it being much more expensive, to the point of being unworkable. Some states have brought suit agains the government claiming that the feds have no authority to mandate that people buy a product. Whatever you think of Obama’s plan, it hinges on everyone buying insurance. If they don’t, none of the number work at all. Ironically, the defense the government is now waging is that “of course they can do it, just like any other tax”. Even though Obama had sworn up and down that it was NOT a tax. This argument does save the workability of the the health care plan, but it will reveal Obama to be the smiling, lying sack of shit that he is. (Like 99% of politicians on both sides.) So, we either already have a tax increase that has been passed or Obama’s health care plan can’t work. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/15 "2010-09-25T19:31:17Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > > This is precisely the plan he wanted because it was the one plan the insurance companies could live with. He threw all his campaign promises about fostering transparent government out the window so he could meet with insurance executives in private and hammer out a deal. > > Why exactly should obama do the bidding of the insurance companies? > Please, complete the theory for me. Campaign contributions. What else? > [@](#): > > During the 2008 campaign, Obama often promised to put health care reform negotiations on C-SPAN so the public could see and comment on the demands made by various players. > > As the process unfolded last year, critics complained not just about closed Congressional negotiations on health care, but about deals the White House worked out behind closed doors with pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, hospitals and unions. At times, Republicans and liberal Democrats have joined in the complaints. > > Several of the closed negotiating sessions over the bill have taken place at the White House. [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31990.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31990.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/16 "2010-09-25T19:38:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > > [@godix](#): > > > > It’s a broken half-ass compromised law that if implemented as is will make things even worse. Fortunately, it won’t be implemented as it. Things don’t fully kick in until 2014 and in the next four years I expect the law to be revised. I doubt there will be a large scale fight to change it, but there will be an amendment here, a regulatory decision there, and so on. What starts in 2014 won’t be exactly what was passed in 2010. Hopefully, those changes will fix some of the problems. > > There is one potentially HUGE problem that could lead to either the whole thing going south or it being much more expensive, to the point of being unworkable. Some states have brought suit agains the government claiming that the feds have no authority to mandate that people buy a product. Whatever you think of Obama’s plan, it hinges on everyone buying insurance. If they don’t, none of the number work at all. > > Ironically, the defense the government is now waging is that “of course they can do it, just like any other tax”. Even though Obama had sworn up and down that it was NOT a tax. This argument does save the workability of the the health care plan, but it will reveal Obama to be the smiling, lying sack of shit that he is. (Like 99% of politicians on both sides.) > > So, we either already have a tax increase that has been passed or Obama’s health care plan can’t work. It’s not going to be found unconstitutional. There is waaaaay too much precedent. Obama may have to do a little tap dancing around the tax thingy, but it’ll be a minor annoyance, at most. There’s not “gotcha” there. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/17 "2010-09-25T19:43:11Z")
I like it, for what it is, which is a consumer protection and industry regulation bill. It makes some VERY important changes AND moves us a bit further in the direction of joining the rest of the civilized world in ensuring health care to everyone regardless of income. There is so much misinformation floating around that, according to polls, many have no real idea WHAT, exactly, is IN the bill or what the effects are most likely to be (i.e. most believe it includes or will result in things which non-partisan, reliable sources conclude it will not). Ultimately, it beats the hell out of nothing. As someone whose husband died a few years ago without insurance (he had a genetic condtion and could not GET coverage due to both cost and exclusion based on pre-existing condition, something this legislation eliminates) I learned the hard way that there is (was) NOTHING avaialble to millions of Americans. Even for the poor (check…unless you are preganant or absolutely destitute or both, no medicaid) and those on full disability through SS(check…18 mth waiting period for health coverage through Medicare) you simply cannot get the sort of health care needed to deal with conditions like his. An ER cannot/will not provide heart valve surgery and on-going health care. We still need National Health Care, but in the meantime, these reforms will make a huge difference in the lives of many. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/18 "2010-09-25T19:58:39Z")
I’ve never understood how the current health system helps labour flexibility, since if you or a family member has a condition, the current system effectively ties you down to your current insurance plan, and hence to one employer. If its all about capitalism, surely the more flexible the workforce is, then the better it must be for business. It would also aid small/medium enterprise start ups to attarct the start up talent they need so much too, and maybe it would allow some employees to think about setting up themselves. I honestly think the republicans are somewhat shooting their philosophy in the foot, labour market movement is what capitalism is about, this is what enables the idea to work. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/19 "2010-09-25T20:06:27Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I’ve never understood how the current health system helps labour flexibility, since if you or a family member has a condition, the current system effectively ties you down to your current insurance plan, and hence to one employer. > > If its all about capitalism, surely the more flexible the workforce is, then the better it must be for business. > > It would also aid small/medium enterprise start ups to attarct the start up talent they need so much too, and maybe it would allow some employees to think about setting up themselves. > > I honestly think the republicans are somewhat shooting their philosophy in the foot, labour market movement is what capitalism is about, this is what enables the idea to work. To untie it from employment, you need to take away the tax break companies get for offering it. McCain floated that idea and it was, to put it politely, not well received. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/20 "2010-09-25T20:12:17Z")
I don’t like it. Insurance companies are the problem, and all this does is throw more customers at them. That being said, it’s better than any conservative’s plan I know of, which all seem to be, basically, “don’t get sick.” I think Democrats/liberals have a hard time in this country because we’re willing to criticize the hell out of each other for things we don’t like, or think could be better. Republicans/conservatives are more likely to rally behind the leader or party, even if they don’t agree with everything on the table. I know for a fact that there were a lot of very intelligent Republicans who were embarrassed by Bush’s horrible public speaking skills, but they would never admit it in a million years. On the other hand, there are tons of Obama supporters who are openly slamming his policies. The question is whether they’ll turn out to vote for him again in 2012 despite their disagreements. Hopefully they’ll take a good, long look at the alternative before deciding. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026.md?page=2)