# Does anyone like Obama's health care plan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026 "2010-09-25T17:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/21 "2010-09-25T20:20:07Z")
If you have insurance and exect it to continue, it’s not much good to you. If you don’t have insurance and will get some it’s good for you If you need insurnace and will be dead by 2014 it’s a horrible plan If you’re one of the 10 -15 million people that will still be left uninsured it’s also a horrible plan. Remember this is NOT universal health care (UHC), millions will still be left uninsured. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/22 "2010-09-25T20:39:24Z")
Imagine you are in Manhattan and want to drive to Florida. You have to drive through New Jersey. When you stop for gas if someone asked if you like being in New Jersey you’d say no, of course not, but you are happy you are on your way to Florida. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/23 "2010-09-25T20:51:52Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Imagine you are in Manhattan and want to drive to Florida. You have to drive through New Jersey. When you stop for gas if someone asked if you like being in New Jersey you’d say no, of course not, but you are happy you are on your way to Florida. To carry that analogy further, though, the really salient question is whether the Obamacare plan is actually a step towards a better plan. It’s fine to be in New Jersey for awhile if you’re driving from NYC to Florida, but if you find yourself in Toledo, you’ve made a serious mistake in your long term plans. I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/24 "2010-09-25T22:41:37Z")
Are you calling the legislatures compromise plan “Obama’s plan”? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/25 "2010-09-25T22:51:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > Imagine you are in Manhattan and want to drive to Florida. You have to drive through New Jersey. When you stop for gas if someone asked if you like being in New Jersey you’d say no, of course not, but you are happy you are on your way to Florida. > > To carry that analogy further, though, the really salient question is whether the Obamacare plan is actually a step towards a better plan. It’s fine to be in New Jersey for awhile if you’re driving from NYC to Florida, but if you find yourself in Toledo, you’ve made a serious mistake in your long term plans. > > I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. To do that Medicare taxes would have to be increased enormously. Not that I am utterly opposed to the idea, but for sure that would be extremely controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/26 "2010-09-25T22:57:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. Your conservative buddy is a rarity. The powers that be on the right aren’t pushing that. They’re pushing outright lies and misinformation. _Medicare for All_ would have been awesome. But because the Senate gives as much power to Wyoming as it does to California and the current crop of Republicans have decided to invoke filibuster twice as much as ever before _Medicare for All_ didn’t stand a chance. What did pull through is an amazing accomplishment, given the outright lies and filibuster-tantrums on the right. Not every conservative is insane, just the ones running the show right now. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/27 "2010-09-25T22:59:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. And it is exactly what the _most_ liberal members of Congress proposed. The system is there, it works, it is efficient (ten times more efficient than private insurance) and more people who use it are far happier with it than the folks who have private insurance. I can provide cites for all of those, but they have been provided thousands of times already in GD. It is a plan that actual conservatives should be happy with if the supposedly conservative Republican party hadn’t had it’s agenda hijacked. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/28 "2010-09-25T23:04:07Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > To do that Medicare taxes would have to be increased enormously. Even if it were funded with a national VAT, it would still end up costing each taxpayer less than they are currently paying. But the insurance industry and their army of lobbyists do not want the current system to change. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/29 "2010-09-25T23:07:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To untie it from employment, you need to take away the tax break companies get for offering it. McCain floated that idea and it was, to put it politely, not well received. There’s an excise tax on high-cost employer-provided plans beginning in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/30 "2010-09-25T23:27:16Z")
[quote=“RickJay, post:23, topic:555026”] > [@DanBlather](#): > > I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. Your buddy can thank the Republicans (and Holy Joe Lieberman) for that not happening. It WAS brought up when the whole reform thing was being debated. The Republicans voted _en bloc_ to filibuster and “Independent” Lieberman joined them, effectively killing it. ETA: Actually, universal Medicare was not. Lowering Medicare elibigility to age 55 was. And, as noted, was filibustered to death. Does your friend really think Medicare for ALL would have made it through? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/31 "2010-09-25T23:42:51Z")
I like it. It does the two things that I wanted it to do: provide affordable Universal Converage and cuts long-term costs. If I were designing a system from the ground up to do those things, the ACA probably wouldn’t be what I’d come up with, but thats true of any legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/32 "2010-09-26T00:10:47Z")
I like it. I’ve never, in my entire life, had health insurance. Growing up, my parents ran a small business and simply couldn’t afford it. And as a young adult, I only had one job that offered me health insurance (but gave me the pink flip about a week before I was eligible to get it). I’m thrilled that I’ll be insured come 2014. I’ll be doing my best to stay physically fit until then. However, my backup plan if I need an expensive lifesaving medical procedure before that date is to commit a (relatively minor and victimless) crime specifically so I would go to jail, and the government would have to give me health care, and I’d call up all the newspapers and media outlets and tell them the lack of UHC in this country is what drove me to do it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/33 "2010-09-26T00:41:14Z")
It’s better than nothing, and it’s more than I expected he’d be able to get done. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/34 "2010-09-26T01:10:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > ETA: Actually, universal Medicare was not. Lowering Medicare elibigility to age 55 was. And, as noted, was filibustered to death. Does your friend really think Medicare for ALL would have made it through? No, of course not, he means it rhetorically to illustrate the absurd complexity of the current plan. He’s just expressing frustration. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/35 "2010-09-26T01:15:09Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I like it. > > I’ve never, in my entire life, had health insurance. Growing up, my parents ran a small business and simply couldn’t afford it. And as a young adult, I only had one job that offered me health insurance (but gave me the pink flip about a week before I was eligible to get it). > > I’m thrilled that I’ll be insured come 2014. I’ll be doing my best to stay physically fit until then. > > However, my backup plan if I need an expensive lifesaving medical procedure before that date is to commit a (relatively minor and victimless) crime specifically so I would go to jail, and the government would have to give me health care, and I’d call up all the newspapers and media outlets and tell them the lack of UHC in this country is what drove me to do it. 😛 [I never considered going to prison](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533620&highlight=health+insurance) I’ve heard people staying in shitty marriages because they need their spouse’s employer provided health insurance is a bigger issue than most people realize. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/36 "2010-09-26T01:19:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > On one side we’ve got the typical conservative argument against government intervention in health care. Check. > > On the other side we’ve got people who favor universal health care. Check. > > Who are the people who like Obama’s plan as-is? I’ve heard several people say things to the effect of “It’s a good start.” “It’s better than nothing.” > > I’ve even heard cynical arguments that his plan will make health care so bad that people will be demanding universal government run health care. > > Does ANYONE support the plan as a stand-alone law? If so, why? As an end point is has several flaws. Namely it leaves in place the same powerful corporate interests who many of us feel have damaged health care. No medicare negotiations or reimportations of medicine from foreign countries = hundreds of billions in extra spending over ten years. No public option = tens or hundreds of billions lost. I really don’t know anyone who thinks spending hundreds of billions of dollars extra for a good/service because we live in a plutocracy is a good endpoint. Not only that but the bill was essentially a way to save private insurance companies since their business model would eliminate them within 10 years w/o a government mandate. If costs go up 20-30% a year, all but the sickest drop their plans, which causes another round of 20-30% increases, and another round of dropouts, etc. It’ll move the Overton window to the left and maybe make more radical reforms feasable in 10 years, but it isn’t a good end point, just an improvement over the current system. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/37 "2010-09-26T01:46:57Z")
I really like the new feature of keeping my kids under my employer-based healthcare until they reach age 26. If I read the papers correctly that provision just went into effect. My children have mental health issues that will probably keep them out of the workplace for a while, if not forever. Obamacare gives my wife and me more time to work out the health insurance issues. This is a huge relief for me! ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/38 "2010-09-26T01:59:54Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@suranyi](#): > > > > To do that Medicare taxes would have to be increased enormously. > > Even if it were funded with a national VAT, it would still end up costing each taxpayer less than they are currently paying. But the insurance industry and their army of lobbyists do not want the current system to change. You are very likely correct. However, it still would be very controversial, so that’s why they couldn’t “just” do it. Things that are controversial, even things that are good to do, can’t be done easily with the type of government we have. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/39 "2010-09-26T02:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > …Obamacare gives my wife and me more time to work out the health insurance issues. This is a huge relief for me! I’m glad you brought that up, been wondering much the same thing myself. Picturing an unknown number of moms who slept better Thursday night. Anyone have a clue as to the actual numbers? Were the phone lines hot as soon as it became law? How many grateful voting parents does that add up to? I’m guessing quite a few, so I’m not surprised to hear that Republicans are trying to take credit for it. Looky here, they want to pass a law so that your kids can get your health insurance until they are twenty five! What an exciting and innovative idea! Boy, those Republicans, always full of new and interesting ideas. Must have been that idea guy, Newt Gangrene… [http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/HR\_5424\_short\_summary.pdf](http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/HR_5424_short_summary.pdf) > [@](#): > > …Allowing dependents to remain on their parents’ policies. H.R. 5424 encourages coverage of young adults on their parents’ insurance through age 25… (Does it annoy you as much as it does me when people assume that you are really, really stupid? Gets on my nerves.) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026/40 "2010-09-26T03:49:50Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > I have a conservative buddy who keeps saying “Look, why didn’t they just take Medicare and apply it to everyone? Then it’d be sort of like Canada, which works okay. The system is in place, right? Just make it start at zero years old instead of 65.” It’s a good question. > > And it is exactly what the _most_ liberal members of Congress proposed. They wanted to extend it to everyone, or just lower it to 55? They didn’t do enough PR if it’s the former. > [@janeslogin](#): > > Are you calling the legislatures compromise plan “Obama’s plan”? Why not? Ask people what Obama has accomplished and “passed universial health care” is always in the top 2 or 3 items of their lists. If people are going to give him credit for that, they must think of it as “his” plan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-like-obamas-health-care-plan/555026.md?page=3)