# Does anyone of note still think that dinosaurs are a hoax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424 "2009-09-09T14:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/21 "2009-09-10T03:52:32Z")
I was under the impression that some ultra-Orthodox Jewish groups don’t believe in dinosaurs. Some [half-assed googling](http://books.google.com/books?id=5DaJwW432SIC&pg=RA1-PA76&lpg=RA1-PA76&dq=orthodox+jewish+dinosaurs&source=bl&ots=5iT2uSHz6i&sig=Zc9Gpyzms8jUIyM0KQ9X6jJY0Dk&hl=en&ei=sHaoSoSlHIyylAfnr5TbBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=orthodox%20jewish%20dinosaurs&f=false) reveals a protest of a company in Israel for using dinosaurs in their advertising. I’m guessing it’s not very mainstream, though. I’d be interested in knowing the position of Lubavitcher and Hasidic Jews. Although the Mormon church doesn’t take a position on it (most Mormons believe in dinosaurs), I’ve heard numerous older Mormons assert that fossils older than 6,000 years are remnants of older worlds which were used to construct this one. Again, not a mainstream view, but it’s out there. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/22 "2009-09-10T04:37:15Z")
Not a “credible scientist” by any stretch of the imagination but in the early 1980s my girlfriend at the time gave me a cassette tape by some preacher named “Joel” who argued something to the effect that not only is there backwards masking in rock music, but that The Devil planted dinosaur bones across the Earth to deceive Man into thinking Creationism was a lie. To which I argued, in between spreading disease, wars and poverty, Satan actually has the free time to go around the Earth and bury dinosaur bones? And where did he get them? Does he have a factory, several miles below the Earth’s crust, with a worker army of a hundred midget Demons running around building them? And where did they get the raw materials to make these bones, and the molds, and where did Lucifer get the investment money to keep this operation running . . . . . . Needless to say, that relationship did not last. To the 21st century, my wife swears up and down a few years ago she read on Yahoo! Science somewhere that some researcher speculates that there are unexplored regions of the Amazon that may be habitats for species of “VERY LARGE” undiscovered reptiles, but fuck me if I can find that article anywhere, and neither can she. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/23 "2009-09-10T04:53:26Z")
I’m in my mid-sixties and I don’t recall a complete denial by any Christian group about dinosaurs actually existing. Some fundamentalists speculate that God is testing our faith with information that makes dinosaurs look older than 6,000 years. She is such a clown! ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/24 "2009-09-10T05:10:09Z")
The only dinosaur denier I know of is [Carl Everett](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Everett#Controversies). Maybe he counts if baseball players are people of note. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/25 "2009-09-10T06:52:40Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > however, I do recall in the '70s there were people who were getting at least SOME airtime who claimed dinosaurs were fake - like big foot/lochness monster, etc. Getting airtime does NOT mean that these are reputable or people “of note”, as you asked in your question. In fact, it often seems to be inversely related – the more airtime people get, the less reputable they actually are. ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/26 "2009-09-10T06:55:25Z")
Everything exists on the internet ! A little google found me this ‘dinosaurs never existed’ webpage: [http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm](http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/27 "2009-09-10T07:09:53Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > To the 21st century, my wife swears up and down a few years ago she read on Yahoo! Science somewhere that some researcher speculates that there are unexplored regions of the Amazon that may be habitats for species of “VERY LARGE” undiscovered reptiles, but fuck me if I can find that article anywhere, and neither can she. I think if you parse your own sentence closely, you will see the problem with it in many ways. I have heard the same thing about African jungles though. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/28 "2009-09-10T14:42:03Z")
> [@Oukile](#): > > Everything exists on the internet ! A little google found me this ‘dinosaurs never existed’ webpage: > > [http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm](http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm) He’s also a moon hoaxer. And has a video to hand on [Leaving Information For Those Not Raptured](http://ocii.com/~dpwozney/rapture.htm). Even Fox wouldn’t have him on as a guest expert. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/29 "2009-09-10T15:07:54Z")
> [@Oukile](#): > > Everything exists on the internet ! A little google found me this ‘dinosaurs never existed’ webpage: > > [http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm](http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm) Okay, that’s hilarious. > [@](#): > > “The class Dinosauria was originally defined by Sir Richard Owen in 1842, in a two hour speech that reportedly held the audience captivated. The original dinosaurs of this new group were Megalosaurus, Iguanodon and Hylaeosaurus. However, each of these animals was known only from fragmentary specimens. It wasn’t until the discoveries of dinosaurs in North America in the mid-19th century that people began to get a clearer picture of what dinosaurs looked like.” > > “It is generally accepted that the first discovery of dinosaur remains in North America was made in 1854 by Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden during his exploration of the upper Missouri River.” > > “Near the confluence of the Judith and Missouri Rivers (shown above) Hayden’s party recovered a small collection of isolated teeth which were later described by the Philadelphia paleontologist Joseph Leidy in 1856, in the Proceedings of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia.” > > So, dinosaurs were described in 1842 before the discoveries in 1854 that were required to give a clear picture of what dinosaurs looked like! Were discoveries made or constructed to fit the descriptions? I would have thought that the title _Sir_ would have strongly suggested that Richard Owen wasn’t American. To anyone who was fully awake, that is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/30 "2009-09-10T16:55:11Z")
Um, no, that’s not inconsistent. The quote says the first discovery of remains _in North America_ came after the first European discoveries and their taxonomic classification. Isn’t that what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/31 "2009-09-10T17:11:39Z")
That is what happened. Of course, what Mr. Wozney seems to have missed is the “clear **er** ” in the UCMP quote. Dinosauria as a taxon was initially erected to contain the three then-known species. After further discoveries, scientists began to get a **clearer** picture of the diversity of that taxon. Today, there are over 800 valid genera belonging to Dinosauria. So, yeah…we have an even clearer picture now than they did after the first North American fossils began turning up. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/32 "2009-09-10T17:12:39Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I’m in my mid-sixties and I don’t recall a complete denial by any Christian group about dinosaurs actually existing. Some fundamentalists speculate that God is testing our faith with information that makes dinosaurs look older than 6,000 years. She is such a clown! I have a friend who believes the same thing. My wife’s response to him was, “Why would God lie?” He had no reply to that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/33 "2009-09-10T17:16:06Z")
Exactly. Owen was able to come up with the name _dinosauria_ because he’d already seen Gideon Mantell’s Iguanadon fossils, among others (Southwest England is literally brimming with fossils in places) and various dinosaur and non-dinosaur fossils collected in South America by Darwin and others. The jackass who I quoted is saying, “dinosaurs couldn’t have been described in 1842 because nobody had ever found a dinosaur in North America.” ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/34 "2009-09-10T18:29:01Z")
On a related note, I’m sure I grew up with the belief the fossil record relating to dinosaurs developed very quickly and dramatically because of the invention and implementation of steam railways - the hewing through rock in England and then elsewhere revealed huge quantities of dinosaur material in very short time. Is that how it happened in the early 19th century? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/35 "2009-09-10T18:37:03Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Heh - I’m not THAT old (36) - however, I do recall in the '70s there were people who were getting at least SOME airtime who claimed dinosaurs were fake - like big foot/lochness monster, etc. > > Perhaps it was after a big dino bone find? I’m not quite able to follow that sentence- Are you saying that people were claiming that Bigfoot and Nessie are fake? Never heard of such nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/36 "2009-09-10T19:06:22Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > To the 21st century, my wife swears up and down a few years ago she read on Yahoo! Science somewhere that some researcher speculates that there are unexplored regions of the Amazon that may be habitats for species of “VERY LARGE” undiscovered reptiles, but fuck me if I can find that article anywhere, and neither can she. Is it me, or is “Deep in the Amazon” becoming the new “under the Earth’s crust, you know, with the mole people”? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/37 "2009-09-10T19:43:39Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > On a related note, I’m sure I grew up with the belief the fossil record relating to dinosaurs developed very quickly and dramatically because of the invention and implementation of steam railways - the hewing through rock in England and then elsewhere revealed huge quantities of dinosaur material in very short time. > > Is that how it happened in the early 19th century? Can’t say for sure about the goings-on in England, but at least some of the material excavated during the "U.S.'s “Bone Wars” was a product of the Transcontinental Railroad’s construction. A good many finds were, and still are, accidental discoveries from various rock quarries around the world (with one of the current “hotbeds” being China’s Liaoning quarry, and the famous _Archaeopteryx_ fossils coming from Germany’s Solnhofen quarry). Though, once it is found that a particular quarry (or other rock formation exposed for other reasons)) houses excellent fossil specimens, the findings become less accidental and more deliberately sought after. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/38 "2009-09-10T21:00:39Z")
> [@True Blue Jack](#): > > Well, if we find a Fred Flintstone footprint for real, how would we know it was one of his? An eroded look to the heels? [Only three toes.](http://www.starpulse.com/Television/Flintstones/gallery/FLINTSTONESBTV01/) ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/39 "2009-09-10T22:13:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I think if you parse your own sentence closely, you will see the problem with it in many ways. Before I start tearing into you I need to know if this is this a grammar criticism or a joke? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424/40 "2009-09-10T23:50:35Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > Before I start tearing into you I need to know if this is this a grammar criticism or a joke? You can tear into me as a person if you want but it was a legitimate criticism intellectually. “To the 21st century, my wife swears up and down a few years ago she read on Yahoo! Science somewhere that some researcher speculates that there are unexplored regions of the Amazon that may be habitats for species of “VERY LARGE” undiscovered reptiles, but fuck me if I can find that article anywhere, and neither can she.” There are too many points of conjecture in that comment to count. You can’t really have legitimate articles about undiscovered reptiles in unexplored places. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-of-note-still-think-that-dinosaurs-are-a-hoax/509424.md?page=3)