# Does anyone really really care....? (News of Cheney shooting vs "real" news) \[Ed.\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380 "2006-02-14T01:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/61 "2006-02-14T21:12:04Z")
David Letterman’s Top Tem Dick Cheney Excuses! 😃[The Late Show with Stephen Colbert (Official Site) Watch on CBS](http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/:) > [@](#): > > 1. “Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm” > > 2. “Wanted to get the Iraq mess off the front page” > > 3. “Not enough Jim Beam” > > 4. “Trying to stop the spread of bird flu” > > 5. “I love to shoot people” > > 6. “Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter” > > 7. “I thought the guy was trying to go ‘gay cowboy’ on me” > > 8. “Excuse? I hit him, didn’t I?” > > 9. “Until Democrats approve medicare reform, we have to make some tough choices for the elderly” > > 10. “Made a bet with Gretzky’s wife” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/62 "2006-02-14T21:19:44Z")
[A compendium of last night’s talk show jokes](http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2006/02/14/tv_comedians_target_cheney_accident/). Sample: > [@](#): > > Letterman: “But here is the sad part – before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy’s request for body armor.” > > Leno: “I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, ‘Anyone else want to call domestic wire tapping illegal?’” > > Stewart: “Now, this story certainly has its humorous aspects. … But it also raises a serious issue, one which I feel very strongly about. … moms, dads, if you’re watching right now, I can’t emphasize this enough: Do not let your kids go on hunting trips with the vice president. I don’t care what kind of lucrative contracts they’re trying to land, or energy regulations they’re trying to get lifted – it’s just not worth it.” > > Ferguson: "You can understand why this lawyer fellow let his guard down, because if you’re out hunting with a politician, you think, ‘If I’m going to get it, it’s going to be in the back.’ " ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/63 "2006-02-14T21:19:47Z")
> [@](#): > > “The orange that they’re wearing is not because they’re concerned that the vice president may be there – although that’s why I’m wearing it,” joked McClellan, who was wearing an orange necktie. Ha, and who says Republicans don’t have a sense of humor? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/64 "2006-02-14T21:20:25Z")
I have to admit: declaring that no alcohol was involved when the police were kept away from the investigation via a “misunderstanding” for a day is not very reassuring. How would they have convinced themselves that no alcohol was involved? At that point, only a urine sample at best could have confirmed it, and for all I know that could be too late too, not to mention that I highly doubt they got a urine sample from Cheney. It was all, then, based on testimony from the victim and the friend, both of whom spoke to Cheney and Rove long before they ever spoke to the police. However, I’m still going to stand by my earlier repudiation of the nasty insinuation that drinking was involved. There may have been circumstances that seem to make gathering evidence FOR or AGAINST it pretty hard, but there’s no evidence FOR it either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/65 "2006-02-14T21:24:51Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > At that point, only a urine sample at best could have confirmed it, and for all I know that could be too late too, not to mention that I highly doubt they got a urine sample from Cheney. What? Dude pisses on **everybody!** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/66 "2006-02-14T21:29:37Z")
What’s the point of repeating these jokes in a Great Debates thread? Why don’t you guys use either the active thread in either the Pit or MPSIMS where they’re still inapropriate, but marginally less so. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/67 "2006-02-14T21:45:09Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I highly doubt they got a urine sample from Cheney. I understand [these guys](http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:53139) were actually transporting urine samples of Cheney’s. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/68 "2006-02-14T21:52:09Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Oh good, it’s Liberal complaining about bleeding hearts. From the guy who defines “love” to include “pointlessly setting up natural death traps for humanity to inflict pointless suffering on vast scales” because none of it really matters or means anything to morality. I think I read about a kid who thought like that in Stephen King’s It. > > That might be unfair to your position, but then, I learned it from watching you. You have simply the \*most \* delightful ways of saying that you were mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/69 "2006-02-14T22:15:49Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > … > > Also yeah, I realize the food thing is a non sequitur now, I eat everything I kill and I too often forget many hunters are just in it for the trophies or the pride. You eat _bear_? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/70 "2006-02-14T22:19:26Z")
An interesting story. It combines my two passions: politics and bird hunting. I normally try to avoid posting in GD as much as possible (I lurk!), but I might be able to answer a few questions posed in the thread. - I actually hunt Quail one county over from Kenedy County. Quail hunts are most definitely not Pheasant hunts. Nor are they “canned hunts.” As a hunter, I dislike canned hunts (I’ve even read about placing Pheasant in pneumatic tubes to shoot them into the air by remote control!), but I can promise you there is nothing easy about hunting Quail (by the way, has anyone made the Dan Quayle joke yet?). The challenge is certainly there. Quail are fast, evasive animals and have an incredible survival instinct. Hunting them, especially with higher gauge shot, is quite challenging…fun too!(They also taste great grilled with jalapenos and bacon, but that is a story for another day!) - As I read the paper this morning, I saw that Cheney did not have a stamp that is required to hunt Quail. It is a new stamp that went into place this season, so I was worried that I also hunted this year without one. When I got into my truck this morning, I checked my license. There was in fact an endorsement on there for “Upland Game Birds.” I ordered the “works” like Cheney and I guess my guy at the gas station was better at providing a license than whoever the Vice-President of the United States uses. If anyone from the VP’s staff is watching (and you always have to worry that they are), you can get great service at the “Ice House Gas Station” in George West, TX! Ask for “The guy in the dirty Megadeath T-shirt”! Tell 'em **middleman** sent ya! - Not only am I am Texas Hunter, I am also a Texas attorney (warning- I am _not_ very good.) Here are the relevant statutes on reckless and negligent homicide in Texas from the Texas Penal (snicker) Code. > [@](#): > > § 19.04. MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an > offense if he recklessly causes the death of an individual. > (b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second > degree. > > … > > § 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person > commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by > criminal negligence. > (b) An offense under this section is a state jail felony. > > … > > ©A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect > to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his > conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a > substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or > the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree > that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard > of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the > circumstances as viewed from the actor’s standpoint. > > (d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally > negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or > the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial > and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result > will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the > failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the > standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all > the circumstances as viewed from the actor’s standpoint. Yes. My being a Texas attorney really paid off as I was able to pull up the Texas Penal (snicker) Code off Google and post it! While I am not a big Cheney fan, I am not sure this rises to the level of either offense were Mr. Whittingham to pass (Let’s hope he doesn’t!) It certainly isn’t reckless. It could be criminally negligent, but then most accidents could be. While Cheney was certainly negligent (he broke the most basic rule of hunting) it does not seem to rise to the level of what is normally charged under this statute. There is great juror and prosecutor sympathy for the excuse “it was just an accident!” Cheney followed the path of a bird outside of his safety zone. A deviation, but is it a "gross"deviation? Too many people, myself included, would say “There but for the Grace of God, Go I.” The VP should be treated as would any similarly situated hunter. Not better, but no worse. - For those interested, here is a graphic of what is reported to have (and which I believe) happened. [http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/02/14/cheneygraphic/cheneygraphic.jpg](http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/02/14/cheneygraphic/cheneygraphic.jpg) - Finally, while I think Cheney should receive no punishment, I do object to the use of the phrase “peppering” to describe this incident. I’ve been “peppered” before. An example of peppering is when someone across the field from you shoots at a high flying bird in the air, and the pellets lose their energy and fall on hunters across the field. Not really dangerous with the proper eye protection. When someone gets hit in the face and chest, deadlevel from 30 feet, we don’t call that peppering. That’s getting your ass SHOT! Biggie Smalls did not get peppered and neither did Mr. Whittingham. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/71 "2006-02-14T23:08:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You have simply the \*most \* delightful ways of saying that you were mistaken. Being “maybe” uncharitable isn’t the same thing as saying one is mistaken. And technically, one line responses that touch on no matters of substance and dance off point with a denigration of another poster are still drive-bys even if they are the second or third or fourth such foray into a thread, Mr. I don’t do drivebys. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/72 "2006-02-14T23:10:30Z")
I’ve also heard, middleman, that shooting the brids when they are still “low” is considered to be very unsafe and in bad form, and having to wait until they are higher up (if they get that way) is part of the challenge. Is that the case? ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/73 "2006-02-14T23:32:31Z")
Great post, **middleman** - thanks! I especially enjoyed the lesson on peppering. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/74 "2006-02-15T00:19:56Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I’ve also heard, middleman, that shooting the brids when they are still “low” is considered to be very unsafe and in bad form, and having to wait until they are higher up (if they get that way) is part of the challenge. Is that the case? I’ve heard the same, but there is no consensus opinion. I will say the aerial shot is a more satisfying experience. It does require more skill and coordination. However, I don’t know about safety. Cheney was shooting a bird in flight and look at what happened (I know one incident does not a trend make). Me personally? I’ll take the ground shot or “ground raking” if I get it. A chief purpose for hunting is food. I’d rather get my bird than be a great sportsman. You never truly appreciate the expression “a bird in the hand” until you’ve quail hunted in brush country! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/75 "2006-02-15T00:34:54Z")
Prediction: We will not see pictures of politicians posturing with shotguns for at least a few election cycles. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/76 "2006-02-15T00:42:18Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I don’t know about safety. Cheney was shooting a bird in flight and look at what happened (I know one incident does not a trend make). But it wasn’t flying high, it was still low, hence the accident. That’s at least what some of the hunters on Tv have been saying: that he whirled around to take a shot at an unsafe height when he knew there were others in his party unaccounted for (not to mention the direction of where he was spinning). And I don’t think he was desperate for food. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/77 "2006-02-15T00:45:53Z")
It’s worth noting that when GW Bush had a hunting problem way back in his Texas election days (he shot a protected species), his strategy was to immediately inform everyone he could and cop up to it. He got credit for being honest and not trying to hush things up, and it seemed to work out pretty well for him. A lot of people have been making the contrast. Ironically, at the time, he was on one of those PR hunting junkets that people made fun of Kerry for, and it was for exactly the same reason. His opponent was a life-long hunter, and they needed a way to make Bush look manly and woodsy, given that he was a silver spoon northerner. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/78 "2006-02-15T01:21:21Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > But it wasn’t flying high, it was still low, hence the accident. That’s at least what some of the hunters on Tv have been saying: that he whirled around to take a shot at an unsafe height when he knew there were others in his party unaccounted for (not to mention the direction of where he was spinning). Quail don’t really fly high. They behave more like turkeys in that they only fly when they need to and try to land quickly. You don’t see Quail flying overhead like you would a dove or a migratory bird. Most Quail flight is in the five foot to ten foot range. Or to put in another way, in the face of 78 Year Old Attorneys. > [@](#): > > And I don’t think he was desperate for food. I can honestly say that I have NEVER been desperate for food. When I go hunting, I have plenty of steaks or chicken to throw on the grill. Yet there I am trying to get some Quail to throw on the grill. > [@Apos](#): > > It’s worth noting that when GW Bush had a hunting problem way back in his Texas election days (he shot a protected species), his strategy was to immediately inform everyone he could and cop up to it. He got credit for being honest and not trying to hush things up, and it seemed to work out pretty well for him. A lot of people have been making the contrast. > > Ironically, at the time, he was on one of those PR hunting junkets that people made fun of Kerry for, and it was for exactly the same reason. His opponent was a life-long hunter, and they needed a way to make Bush look manly and woodsy, given that he was a silver spoon northerner. This happened to Ann Richards during the 1994 election AGAINST dubya. Did it also happen to him at a later date? I don’t remember that. I DO remember reading in the paper in August that he had spent his time in Crawford clearing Brush and hunting dove, despite the fact that Dove Season always starts September 1st in Crawford’s region. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/79 "2006-02-15T03:19:54Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > Should the news media concern itself with relative trivia and neglect the momentous problem facing the nation and provide relevant information? I think it’s entirely appropriate for the news media to concern itself whenever the Vice President shoots someone in the face. In what universe would the story “Vice President Shoots Man in Face” NOT be a top headline? Frankly I find the suggestion that this is somehow a non-story to be more than a little weird. _The Vice President shot a man, in the face!_ The story features: 1. a massively powerful public figure, 2. bloodshed, and 3: idiocy. Granted, I’m no journalist, but to me that sounds like practically the definition of “newsworthy.” At the very least, this incident has brought to light an important tidbit of information that I might not otherwise have realized: _the Vice President cannot be trusted to wield a firearm safely._ Apparently these canned hunts of his are a not-infrequent tradition, and who knows but that I might one day have found myself in the same hunting party as him? Unlikely, yes, but stranger things have happened. I could certainly understand how someone, given the chance, might leap at the chance to go hunting alongside the Vice President, to gain some insight into the mind of such a prominent politician, or just for bragging rights. Now, however, people can better weigh the potential benefits of such an opportunity against the risks. Because he might shoot you. In the face. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380/80 "2006-02-15T04:23:51Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Shooting someone (accident or no) doesn’t rise to the level of a hummer? WTF? Unless the stain on Monica’s dress was the result of a drive-by shooting that was a deliberate act. It’s morally repulsive that a married man would abuse his position of power to shag an unpaid teenage assistant. That’s wholly different than a hunting accident where the intent was NOT to spray someone with a hot substance. Vice President Chaney is under no obligation to publicize the event any more than the media is obligated to report it. The proper authorities were alerted and more importantly, medical attention was rendered in a timely manner. Apparently, that’s only expected from Republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-really-really-care-news-of-cheney-shooting-vs-real-news-ed/344380.md?page=5)