# Does anyone think Bible Code software works? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256 "2012-12-07T01:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Clampet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@Clampet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clampet)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/21 "2013-08-27T02:19:34Z")
then buy a reputable copy if the software and see if you can find anything- of course it helps if you have an idea of what your looking for- Its one thing to have a bunch of people put the code down -and they believe in god- and they put it down with out even trying it- again- you have to have some things to look for- in edgar cayces readings its mentioned that amilius is the angel (you know him as Michael) the did the work for god as adam and then again as jesus- and you can find amilius name in the codes (sp) I’ll look it up if you get back to me - basically another way to look at it is man has finally become so smart that you’ve figured out the base for how he made everything- he still wants credit and doesn’t want you to forget he’s there- you’ve also become so smart- man can destroy the entire planet in a couple of hours- you’ve never been at that level before ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/22 "2013-08-27T02:25:22Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > then buy a reputable copy if the software and see if you can find anything- of course it helps if you have an idea of what your looking for- > > Its one thing to have a bunch of people put the code down -and they believe in god- and they put it down with out even trying it- again- you have to have some things to look for- > > in edgar cayces readings its mentioned that amilius is the angel (you know him as Michael) the did the work for god as adam and then again as jesus- and you can find amilius name in the codes (sp) I’ll look it up if you get back to me - > > basically another way to look at it is man has finally become so smart that you’ve figured out the base for how he made everything- he still wants credit and doesn’t want you to forget he’s there- you’ve also become so smart- man can destroy the entire planet in a couple of hours- you’ve never been at that level before Why don’t we stick with your claim that > [@Clampet](#): > > actually a few things have been stopped thanks to it- , o.k.? What events are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/23 "2013-08-27T02:48:21Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > actually a few things have been stopped thanks to it- Like critical thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/24 "2013-08-27T03:19:35Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > then buy a reputable copy if the software and see if you can find anything- of course it helps if you have an idea of what your looking for- . . . See my objections from the earlier part of this thread. How do you define your canonical sequence of letters? What language are you using? Are you using an original Hebrew text? Do you then jump to Greek for the NT? What about chapter titles and other text? What about spaces? There isn’t any “reputable” copy. The algorithm is trivial, and any jackass (by which I mean myself) can write a BASIC program to select every N letters, beginning with letter M. Again, I’ve done this myself, with several books. You will find coincidental instances of letters and words, but nothing more. You will find these coincidences in any book you choose. It’s like looking at the stars and seeing constellations. It doesn’t mean that Cygus is actually a Swan. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/25 "2013-08-27T03:48:37Z")
The idea has ancient roots in Christian and Jewish…tradition, I guess would be the word. > **[Gematria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria)** > > Gematria (/ɡəˈmeɪtriə/; Hebrew: גמטריא or gimatria גימטריה, plural גמטראות or גימטריאות, gimatriot) is the practice of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase according to an alphanumerical cipher. A single word can yield several values depending on the cipher which is used. > According to Aristotle (384–322 BCE), isopsephy, based on the Milesian numbering of the Greek alphabet developed in the Greek city of Miletus, was part of the Pythagorean tradition, which originated in the 6th ... Perfectly good brief overview if your interested, and saves me typing if you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/26 "2013-08-27T04:01:14Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > … see if you can find anything- of course it helps if you have an idea of what your looking for- Bingo! Now you understand! _Seek and ye shall find._ So what if you find a desired combination of letters? What does that prove? Nothing more than the source work is big enough that there are gadzillions of possible letter combinations. If you think there is something more than probability at work here, the thought is all in your mind. Ask a mathematician about it sometime. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/27 "2013-08-27T04:24:18Z")
I did, but his answer didn’t add up. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/28 "2013-08-27T04:53:18Z")
Oy! > [@Clampet](#): > > then buy a reputable copy if the software and see if you can find anything- of course it helps if you have an idea of what your looking for- > > Its one thing to have a bunch of people put the code down -and they believe in god- and they put it down with out even trying it- again- you have to have some things to look for- > **[The Bible Code](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Bible_Code)** > > The Bible Code is a 1997 book by Michael Drosnin. The concept of Bible codes, also known as Torah Codes, is based on the idea that hidden messages are contained in sacred texts. > [@](#): > > Pure woo in its purest form > > This is, of course, pure woo on the same level as uncovering backward masking in rock songs or retroactively applying the prophecies of Nostradamus to recent events. Drosnin claims to have applied the algorithm to War and Peace and found nothing, but some have since applied the same computer algorithm to find hidden codes in other books such as Moby Dick,[2] The Lord of The Rings series and the lyrics of Vanilla Ice.[3] Naturally, prophecies, codes and other secrets were also discovered in these non-religious texts. Beyond the fact that literally any sequence of words can be found in the Bible, the problem is that no “prophetic” sequence of words has ever been discovered until after the events foretold have transpired. In these cases, none of the prophecies can be said to have predictive value, but rather they are indicative of “retroactive shoehorning”. > > Recently, Drosnin has shied away from using it predictively. However he has stopped short of publically admitting that it’s a proven statistical certainty that if you look in the right way, you can find anything in anything.[4] > “”I don’t think the code makes predictions. I think it reveals probabilities. so I can’t say what will happen in the next five years. also it is not a crystal ball – you can’t just ask the Bible to tell you about tomorrow or next year. You can only find what you know how to look for – you must have some idea of what you’re looking for. > > Nonetheless, the book was a best seller, and Michael Drosnin has so far managed to milk the material for no less than two sequels and many TV documentaries (although most now are made to refute the “code”). In the best example of “retroactive shoehorning” it should be noted that the The Bible Code (published in 1997) did not “predict” the September 11th terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, while The Bible Code 2 (published in 2002) did[5]. Must be because you need to “have some idea of what you’re looking for”, clearly. > [@Clampet](#): > > in edgar cayces readings its mentioned that amilius is the angel (you know him as Michael) the did the work for god as adam and then again as jesus- and you can find amilius name in the codes (sp) I’ll look it up if you get back to me - > > basically another way to look at it is man has finally become so smart that you’ve figured out the base for how he made everything- he still wants credit and doesn’t want you to forget he’s there- you’ve also become so smart- man can destroy the entire planet in a couple of hours- you’ve never been at that level before One needs to be smarter than that and be able to identify pseudoscience. So far the team of “luminaries” you are referring to are getting struck out, and not even Cayce at the bat 🙂 can help you get a hit: > **[Edgar Cayce - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](https://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html)** > [@](#): > > Edgar Cayce (pronounced Casey) is known as one of America’s greatest psychics. His followers maintain that Cayce was able to tap into some sort of higher consciousness, such as a god or the akashic record, to get his “psychic knowledge.” He used this “knowledge” to predict that California will slide into the ocean and that New York City will be destroyed in some sort of cataclysm. He predicted that in 1958 the U.S. would discover some sort of death ray used on Atlantis. Cayce is one of the main people responsible for some of the sillier notions about Atlantis, including the idea that the Atlanteans had some sort of Great Crystal. Cayce called the Great Crystal the Tuaoi Stone and said it was a huge cylindrical prism that was used to gather and focus “energy,” allowing the Atlanteans to do all kinds of fantastic things. But they got greedy and stupid, tuned up their Crystal to too high a frequency and set off volcanic disturbances that led to the destruction of that ancient world. He made other predictions concerning such things as the Great Depression (that 1933 would be a good year) and the Lindbergh kidnapping (most of it wrong, all of it useless), and that China would be converted to Christianity by 1968. He also claimed to be able see and read auras, but this power was never tested under controlled conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/29 "2013-08-27T11:09:04Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > also Diapers (which suggests that’s not a sash he was wearing) > [@](#): > > When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom. > > “Let’s not tear it,” they said to one another. “Let’s decide by lot who will get it.” > > This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled that said, > > “They divided my clothes among them > and cast lots for my garment.” > So this is what the soldiers did. -John 19, 23-24. The loincloth on paintings of the Crucifixion was put there by the author for modesty purposes. You found the word “diapers” and then derived a conclusion from it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/30 "2013-08-27T12:10:14Z")
You can find great moments in history hidden in the Bible in much the same way you can find the complete works of Shakespeare in a dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/31 "2013-08-27T12:57:03Z")
I was skeptical at first, but did my own search, without the software, on the King James Bible. In just a few minutes, I was stunned at how often Michelle Obama is mentioned. I see nine references just to “Her Obama.” Of these the most ominous might be found taking every tenth letter from the following verse. (Please note that the verse mentions “tenth” so contains a clue to its own decoding.) [QUOTE=Leviticus 14:21] And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then He shall takE one lamb foR a trespass Offering to Be waved, to mAke an atoneMent for him, And one tentH deal of finE flour mingLed with oil For a meat offering, and a log of oil; [/QUOTE] The message “Her Obama Helf” is pretty clear, despite that King James’ men tried to muddy the waters with a Germanish spelling of “Helpf.” Why would a detailed recipe be needed in this verse, if not to encode a prophecy? I’m not at all sure who Michelle’s man is predicted to help. Al-Qaeda? Wall Street? More research is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/32 "2013-08-27T13:12:01Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So what if you find a desired combination of letters? What does that prove? That the Bible was written by Edward de Vere? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/33 "2013-08-27T20:50:20Z")
**septimus** : It may be a reference of Obamacare, the Affordable Helf Care Act. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/34 "2013-08-27T20:56:17Z")
Trinopus: > [@](#): > > If there were a very certain formal letter-by-letter version of “The Bible,” then, maybe. But there are too many ambiguities. Not that this addresses the reliability or lack thereof in the “codes”, but the Hebrew Bible is very much a standardized letter-for-letter text. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/35 "2013-08-27T23:39:25Z")
That does help a lot, actually. As I understand it, Hebrew doesn’t have spaces between words. But what about the vowel marks? Are those “letters” or marks that are attached to letters? The “Bible Code” technique crosses from one book to another. So the question of the exact order of the books comes up, as well as the question of the headings of books. Does the title of a book go into its text? If the Bible Code fans limited themselves to single Old Testament books in ancient Hebrew, their case would still be remarkably stupid, but at least they would have eliminated these ambiguities. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/36 "2013-08-28T00:56:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **septimus** : It may be a reference of Obamacare, the Affordable Helf Care Act. So the bit about California sliding into the ocean? That’ll be caused by an earfquake? ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/37 "2013-08-28T03:16:32Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > So the bit about California sliding into the ocean? That’ll be caused by an earfquake? _And if California slides into the ocean Like the mystics and statistics say it will I predict this motel will be standing until I pay my bill_ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/38 "2013-10-10T03:46:15Z")
Recently I read that the Jesus myth has been exposed as a fraud. This can be proved by the King James Bible itself: [QUOTE=Isaiah Chapter 6] 1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: [/QUOTE] In Verse 5, the Prophet admits he’s lying (“unclean lips”) but look closer at that verse: Start with ‘T’ and read every second letter: _T esiio I’m fraud …_ “esiio” is of course a repetition of Uzziah (the King referred to in Verse 1), which in turn is a homonymic code for Isaiah, the Prophet about whom Wikipedia writes > [@](#): > > Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335–395), believed that the Prophet Esaias (Isaiah) “knew more perfectly than all others the mystery of the religion of the Gospel”. Jerome (c. 342–420) also lauds the Prophet Esias, saying, “He was more of an Evangelist than a Prophet, because he described all of the Mysteries of the Church of Christ so vividly that you would assume he was not prophesying about the future, but rather was composing a history of past events.” So who was T[itus] Esiio (Esias)? In [the family tree of the Flavian family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flavian_family_tree.png), you can see that the first Emperor of that Dynasty, Vespasian, had an uncle _whose name is suppressed!_ I think that uncle was Titus Esias the Prophet, and that he left a coded confession about his deception in the Book named after him. I know some nit-pickers will wonder how this coded message could have found its way into an English-language Bible when English didn’t even exist at the time of the Jesus fraud. Ah … such are the mysterious ways of the Divine! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/39 "2013-10-10T04:02:49Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The problem is not with the software . . . but in ourselves, Horatio! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256/40 "2013-10-10T04:28:25Z")
> [@Clampet](#): > > actually a few things have been stopped thanks to it- > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Such as…? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why don’t we stick with your claim that, o.k.? > > > [@Clampet](#): > > > > actually a few things have been stopped thanks to it- > > What events are you talking about? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Like critical thinking? Like the first successful time travel device, the first successful matter teleporters, the cures for AIDS and multiple sclerosis, and the magic bullet vaccine that prevents all forms of cancer. Prove it? Can you even _ask_ for proof? You don’t see any of those things around, do you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-think-bible-code-software-works/643256.md?page=1)