# Does anyone understand the federal budget? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286 "2011-04-05T16:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/1 "2011-04-05T16:50:17Z")
I’m not sure if this is BBQ rant, or mundane & pointless. But I’ll start here. I have a strong suspicion that the foment and unrest that gave birth to the Tea Party is based on complete & utter ignorance as to how the US government spends its money. I think if you asked a typical Teapartier to draw up a pie chart allocating federal expenditure, it would look something like: NPR: 15% Abortions: 10% Aid to furreners who hate us anyway: 10% Grants for pointy-headed intellectuals to do stupid research projects: 10% Welfare: 10% Parks 'n highways 'n stuff: 10% Defense: 10% Medicare & Social Security: 5% Waste: 10% (I purposely didn’t check the math.) And so it was easy to wind up a Tea Party candidate, and send him to Washington with a “mandate” to fix the mess. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/2 "2011-04-05T16:57:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m not sure if this is BBQ rant, or mundane & pointless. But I’ll start here. > _snip_ I’d agree it was a mild rant but it is also very much pointless. I’d send it there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/3 "2011-04-05T17:02:37Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > NPR: 15% This is high among the general public but may be correct or low for Tea Partiers. > [@](#): > > In a CNN poll of American adults released Friday, the median guess on what percentage of the federal budget goes to public broadcasting was 5%. With a $3.55 trillion budget last year, that would put funding for the CBP at approximately $178 billion. > > \ > > The CPB received about $420 million last year from the federal government, making it roughly one one-hundredth of one percent, of the overall budget. > > \ > > Further, 20% of respondents thought CPB funding made up over 10% of the entire budget, including 5% who said it made up at least half. > > SOURCE: [http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-americans-wrongly-estimate-178-billion-in-fed-budget-goes-to-public-broadcasting.php](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-americans-wrongly-estimate-178-billion-in-fed-budget-goes-to-public-broadcasting.php) I think Joe Citizen has little clue and I think the government (whtaever side of the aisle they happen to be on) is happy to allow that ignorance to continue. It allows them to make all sorts of assertions (e.g. saying CPB takes a bigger percentage than 0.01% when you look at its share of the discretionary budget). Joe Citizen could get the information if they want. It is not all that hard to find but I doubt most care enough to bother and are happier with their delusions. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/4 "2011-04-05T17:13:26Z")
It’s a little frightening that we’ve sent an ignorant army to Washington to clash by night. It’s encouraging that Paul Ryan has put Medicare on the table. I doubt if I agree with anything he says, but at least he grasps the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/5 "2011-04-05T17:25:27Z")
His budget proposal (or framework, if you prefer) is actually very interesting and well thought out. I have no doubt it will be demagogued by the usual suspects, which is too bad because it’s a very workable solution to our huge problem. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/6 "2011-04-05T17:39:18Z")
I’m embarrassed to see that the TPM article linked by whack-a-mole makes the exact same point as my OP. Cross my heart, I thought of this all by myself. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/7 "2011-04-05T17:45:01Z")
Since tea partiers are likely to be Republicans or independents then Democrats they are more likely to be informed about the issues of the day than the average american [See this survey and ones like it](http://people-press.org/2011/03/31/well-known-clinton-and-gadhafi-little-known-who-controls-congress/) Since political ignorance is rational and the severity of the agency problem with democratic government anti-incumbency movements like the tea party are one of the few means of accountability in the system. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/8 "2011-04-05T17:53:51Z")
That is an interesting survey. One of the questions is pertinent here, though: “What percent of the budget is spent on Medicare”. And all parties and independents score equally abysmally on that question. However, only one party makes allocation of federal spending their raison d’etre. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/9 "2011-04-05T18:59:40Z")
Based on this [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/01/americans.flunk.budget.iq/index.html?hpt=Sbin) article I’d say the answer is ‘no’. 😛 > [@](#): > > According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday, most Americans think that the government spends a lot more money than it actually does on such unpopular programs as foreign aid and public broadcasting. > [@](#): > > “The public has a better idea of how much the government spends on programs like Social Security and Medicare, but there is a related problem – cutting them has little public support,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “The result: cutting unpopular programs would probably not cut the deficit very much, and cutting the deficit would probably require cuts in programs that Americans like.” > [@](#): > > Let’s start with international assistance. Sixty percent of people we questioned say they’d like to put foreign aid on the chopping block. So would that make a dent in the deficit? > > No – but try telling that to the American public. According to the poll, on average, Americans estimate that foreign aid takes up 10 percent of the federal budget, and one in five think it represents about 30 percent of the money the government spends. > > But the actual figure is closer to 1 percent, according to data from the Office of Management and Budget from the 2010 fiscal year’s $3.5 trillion budget. > > OK. Let’s try more low-hanging fruit – funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Our survey indicates nearly half of all Americans would like to see major cuts. > > According to our poll the public estimates that the government spent 5 percent of its budget last year on public television and radio. > > Not even close. The real answer is about one-tenth of 1 percent. > [@](#): > > Cutting pensions and benefits for government workers is popular, but once again most Americans overestimate how much that costs the government. > > On average, Americans think the federal government spent 10 percent of its 2010 budget on pensions and retiree benefits; the OMB figures indicate the real number is about 3.5 percent. And here is a perennial favorite on the SD…the military! > [@](#): > > Cuts in military spending also have some support – more than a third of all Americans favor cuts in that area. But the public, once again, overestimates the amount of military spending. They told us 30 percent in our poll. In reality only 19 percent of the 2010 budget went towards military spending, according to 2010 OMB figures. > [@](#): > > What Americans got right are the programs they don’t want to cut. > > When we ask Americans to guess how much Social Security cost the government in 2010, the median estimate was 20 percent. Not bad, given that OMB figures indicate that Social Security represented 20.4 percent of the federal budget in 2010. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/10 "2011-04-05T20:37:06Z")
_“In reality only 19 percent of the 2010 budget went towards military spending, according to 2010 OMB figures.”_ Of course it is [58% of discretionary spending](http://nationalpriorities.org/resources/federal-budget-101/charts/discretionary-spending/discretionary-budget-fy2010/). Lots of ways to spin these things. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/11 "2011-04-05T20:53:37Z")
Eventually, we’re going to have to renegotiate what is “mandatory” and what is “discretionary”. We’ll never get anywhere if we only discuss discretionary spending. And we’re really wasting time if we discuss tiny slivers of discretionary spending like Planned Parenthood and CPB. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/12 "2011-04-05T21:25:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Americans estimate that foreign aid takes up 10 percent … But the actual figure is closer to 1 percent And note that much of that is to Afghanistan and Iraq. > [@](#): > > According to our poll the public estimates that the government spent 5 percent of its budget last year on public television and radio. A bizarre level of ignorance. But be aware that many Americans are so innumerate that conceiving of a percentage with a decimal point (“0.5%”) might be beyond them. (It would be nice to see the exact phrasing of poll questions.) And even allegedly intelligent right-wing Congressmen and Dopers have their blind spots, claiming for example that abolishing the Department of Education would yield a quick $100 billion win. I’m not sure whether they are unaware that much of the Education Dept’s budget is spent on … (are you sitting down? did you guess the answer?) … Education(!) … and would have to be made up by local taxes, or whether they just prefer an uneducated populace. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/13 "2011-04-06T17:17:10Z")
Sometimes I feel really discouraged. I like to think that people just have a different idea of what the Govt should and shouldn’t be doing, but in reality they have no fucking clue what it does now. Not only that, but things like how marginal tax rates work, the difference between taxes on revenue and profit, what historical tax rates were, and a host of other topics are not understood by the public. That’s why they elect people that say complete crap. Does the general public know the US spends more than any other country on healthcare but our results are mediocre? Do they know that current tax rates are low versus recent history, or that SS taxes are capped, or that SS and Medicare taxes are only paid by payroll taxes, or that capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than other income? Do they know that rural communities receive more in Federal spending than they pay in taxes? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anyone-understand-the-federal-budget/577286/14 "2011-04-06T17:23:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And even allegedly intelligent right-wing Congressmen and Dopers have their blind spots, claiming for example that abolishing the Department of Education would yield a quick $100 billion win. I’m not sure whether they are unaware that much of the Education Dept’s budget is spent on … (are you sitting down? did you guess the answer?) … Education(!) … and would have to be made up by local taxes, or whether they just prefer an uneducated populace. Sometimes I just want to call their bluff and cut almost all Federal spending on education, roads, healthcare, and agriculture and see how long it takes for the Red States to figure out that they just got fucked. If California could keep the money the residents pay in taxes and use it locally they would not have a budget problem.